Poll - When you fence new people..

[Catlady]

I do what mostly everyone else on here seems to do. In competition, I'm out to win and despite having fenced nearly three years, I'm not that fabulous myself. In addition when I was a beginner there were a few times when while I didn't win the bout I ended up getting more points than I probably should have off a fencer better than I was because they expected me to be easy.
As far as fencing with new fencers when it's just for fun, basically doesn't that cover all sparring, I won't attack all out. Usually I try them out slowly. For instance first I'll offer a pretty obvious attack to see what they do with it, e.g. do they back up, are they calm, do they parry, but not reposte, etc. From there I try different things, like how do they react to a lunge. I will try working on things I have trouble with, like my disengage, since beginners are often more wide with their parries and don't always react as quickly, I have a better chance of seeing the timing. I have never, nor will I ever flick on a beginner, first because I'm not that good, and if you land a flick wrong it hurts, some times worse than others. Along those same lines, it can be frightening to have someone flick at you, more so if it hurts when it lands and I don't want to scare them out of the salle and quite possibly out of the sport. Of course if the beginner reacts very well to the moves I try I will take my game up a notch.The big thing is not all beginners are created equal. There are some to whom fencing does not come naturally, and some who get it immediately--definitely not me, or as it turns out the only other fencer still with the club who started when I did. In addition, some are absolute animals on strip and what they lack in skill they make up for in sheer intensity and determination, others almost seem afraid to hit someone especially if that someone is a woman. I then have to explain that you can't hit someone all that hard with a foil anyway, and second of all I'm wearing a great deal of padding, not to mention that if they really are hurting me I'll let them know, otherwise, I'm fine.

As far as advice, I don't give much. I don't think I'm in a position to do so. I will usually mention simple things, like if their parries are too wide, or they parry, but don't always follow with a reposte. Usually I won't say much in the way of strategy unless, it's basic, for instance, that the object is to make your opponent "blink", or if it's something that the person responsible for teaching them tells everyone to do all the time;I have fenced at SLF long enough to get to know the general philosophy of most of the instructors.

I am a person who sometimes gets upset when someone tries to give me advice. I know I shouldn't, and I know that the giver of the advice is only trying to be helpful. Usually I just accept it, smile and say thanks,but sometimes it gets to me. One or two bits of advice don't get to me, but if it seems someone is turning the bout into a sort of mini-lesson, that's when I'm likely to get upset. What's going on in my head when that happens is that the person who is giving the impromptu lesson obviously thinks I'm so bad that I'm not worth fencing so they've taken pity on me and are trying to keep me from being so useless. One of my coaches once pointed out to me that he's a coach, it's his job and usually if he does it, I'll take it, but as I said sometimes I have hard time taking assistance in the positive light in which it's been offered.
One thing that's hard for me in competition is when I get my clock cleaned by a young junior, if they're over twelve or so I can take it better, and they seem to be trying to console me. Again I know they're just trying to be polite, but there's nothing for the old self esteem like having an eight year old try to make you feel better. I just nod, thank them for the bout and find somewhere to crawl off to and cry when this happens.
As far as people who are new to the club, but not necessarily to fencing, I definitely don't go easy. There's a guy who I saw practicing with the beginner class, basically at our club once you join the club you can participate in any class you want, although you still have to pay for special workshops and private lessons. I assumed perhaps while he had obviously fenced before, he wasn't very good yet. I soon found out the contrary was true, he ended up being the one giving me tips on my game.

[Crash55]

At practice it depends upon the person and my mood. If it is a brand new beginner or a kid I try to go easy. I will practice something or if I see a major weakness I will jsut attack there over and over until they fix it. I will of course tell them I am doing this. For some people fix the problem, others get really annoyed. One problem I have with them is remembering to slow down. I am rather large, so when I get moving there is a lot of momentum there. Against experienced fencers keeping distance keeps this form being a problem. Against beginners it can result in lots of overly hard counters.

At tourneys I have no mercy. Regardless of sex or age or experience I am there to win and the other fencer is the enemy. I used to try and go easy on some of them and then found myself falling behind and having to play catch up. One problem I ahve is facing club mates. I sometimes fall back into practice mode and this has cost me bouts.

[DarkTransient]

I would usually let beginners win actually. Because the chances are if I beat the crap out of them they'll never show up again. And that is not what I want.

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by DarkTransient:
<STRONG>I would usually let beginners win actually. Because the chances are if I beat the crap out of them they'll never show up again. And that is not what I want.</STRONG>

I would venture a guess that anybody who would quit after losing a bout to somebody more experienced is NOT cut out for this sport. At what point should we all STOP throwing bouts? two months of experience? a year? It IS very important to be nice to newbies, but it is, IMO, ALSO very important to "beat the crap" out of them (assuming you mean relative to the score, not physical harm). That is how they learn. Lessons are best taught by mistakes.

-m

[angrylemur]

I know when I was really new nobody took it easy on me, in fact I remember my first tourney where I got completely blown away, I think I got 12 points total in the whole day. (Of course, I had only been fencing for 5 months at the time, I shouldn't have even thought about competing) and I felt pretty bad. By new I mean fresh to the sport, anywhere from 2-5 months, or something like that. Our salle doesn't have all that many people so we all fence eachother at our in-club tourneys, I don't like to just kill the new guys because I know most of the other fencers don't take it easy on them and I know how it feels to get the crap blown out of you.

[Bugaboo]

I find that women frequently try to arrange corps a corps situations with me (on the strip and off), so I politely help with a little bit of playful "jostling" of my own. After we get to know each other better over dinner and a date, they usually beg me to dominate them ... which naturally carries over into fencing the next time we cross swords.

If it's a new guy, though, I destroy him totally. Beyond all possibility of recovery. His ego is smashed, his body ruined. It's very satisfying to see a grown man cry as he pleads for your forgiveness and pity. About half the time, he gives up fencing forever -- I help retrain those who are strong enough to survive our encounter.

[Peach]

dingbat

[oiuyt]

I would usually let beginners win actually. Because the chances are if I beat the crap out of them they'll never show up again. And that is not what I want.

Then you deserve a black card each and every time you ever face a newbie in competition. If you actually do what you say here, I hope people from your local area start calling you on it and sending you home early from competitions. IMnsHO there is no place in our sport for people who cheat.... favoring an opponent is a form of cheating.

I'm not saying that every bout with a beginner needs to be at 100% (the way you would fence in a gold medal bout that's goig down to the wire). Certainly, though, TOUCHES should never be thrown, and certainly not BOUTS. It's not honest.

A while back (I won't call myself a "new" fencer, this was a time period when I had 1-3 years experience and finished the time in question as a C) there was a fencer at my local club who was much better than I was. EVERY time we fenced at club the score would go to 8-8, he would stop the bout, give a suggestion of something I should work on, and proceed to beat me 15-8. In two years of fencing at club I'm not sure I ever scored after those advice breaks.

Then I got the timing of his actions down, went from being flattened (when he was fencing all out) to challenging to eliminating him fairly easily in the round of 32 of a biggish tournament in the course of about 2 weeks. Since then he's never tried patronizing me or done anything that made me suspect I haven't earned every touch I've gotten off of him since. Not surprisingly I feel much better about the times that we fence (granted these are almost non-existant any more, I've moved 400+ miles away since then).

Until that point however I was always frustrated coming out of a bout with him. No matter how good my actions were in the first 16 touches it didn't really count for me because I knew he wasn't fencing all out. I'd have much rather been completely mashed from the start than have all of my touches be questionable.

Don't throw touches to newbies, it's not honest, it's not fair, it'll piss off the newbie once they realize what you're doing, and it's against the rules (when in competition).

-B

[Foil Girl]

Originally posted by oiuyt:
<STRONG>
Don't throw touches to newbies, it's not honest, it's not fair, it'll piss off the newbie once they realize what you're doing, and it's against the rules (when in competition).

-B </STRONG>

AMEN!

[angrylemur]

I don't exactly throw them touches, I probably should have been more clear.

I usually keep things very simple with them and hope they have the presence of mind to figure out what they are doin before they overcommit themselves, and if they do the right thing they get a touch. I don't GIVE them touches, I just go a bit easier and hope they can get them without me giving them. I've had a smaller fencers mom com to me and tell me I made her sons day when he got 7 touches on me and he was expecting to get blown away. I like that feeling.

[veeco]

I guess it all depends on the personality of the person you fence with. I'm only talking about practise here.

Some people like advice, some hate it. Some people like it when they are "given" touches (in the way angrylemur states it). Some others want to earn their touches.

The hardest part for those who are on the other side of the strip (that is, the experienced fencer) is to figure out what type of person the beginner is.

But then again, that's what fencing is about anyway, isn't it?

[JadeMatrix]

whenever i fence someone new i don't underestimate them. i know more than enough fencers who found themselves in situations where they were beaten by a "scrub". i never give touches to anyone, competition or not. my opponent needs to earn whatever they can get. if my opponent is a new fencer i will work on a specific action, maybe hand touches, maybe my fleche, depending on what they are presenting. if i'm fencing someone new, not a beginner though, i fence them as well as i can and i don't expect them to underestimate me. being one of the only high-ranked females at my club, many of the people discount my ability because i am a girl. i know what it's like to have touches "given" to me, it is terribly insulting and demeaning (although when it happens i work that much harder to beat my opponent decisively). whether i'm fencing a beginner or someone who i just haven't fenced before, i fence them the way i want to be fenced- going with everything i have. it's the only way that a person can learn and grow as a fencer

[Noha]

ok
i won't say what i do because i was an epee player and i was just defence so that the new players could make what they want but i never give them the touch easy )
now i had changed and i'm stell a begenner in saber , some guys let me defet them, some just defent as i was do but never give me a gouch , some play with me as we are in real battel

i think it all depends on what i'm playing with and now i'm getting better in sabre

[echo]

I'm pretty new to fencing, so other than going against completely new people, my side is from the other end. I only started competing this past June, and at my first tournament I was completely hammered. After my first DE bout, which I lost something like 3 to 15, the guy who beat me spent at least ten minutes before his next bout talking to me about my fencing and what I could do better. I thrive on that sort of thing. If someone is up to giving me advice I'll take it. I'd much rather lose a bout without getting a touch, and gain something from it, than feel like I did something right and not understand what mistakes I made. If I end up going against a B or something in the DEs because of a low pool ranking, I usually enjoy myself, because I know I can't win and all I can do is learn from what my opponent does. In practice even more so, because it only matters in what I gain from it.