IOC trying to reduce 3 weapons to only 1?

[soos]

Originally posted by epeemike81:
<STRONG>
Despite our President, the US is not ENTIRELY filled with idiots.
</STRONG>

yeahhh hahah okey lets say NOT ENTIRELY ... just we r discussing about how to kill fencing, so i enjoy that even americanbs respect fencing, but i see some of u like this silly project, and i just say that in france or italy i dont think 1 fencer would accept sucvh an idea ...

but man, i enjoy the fact u r against this project ! and i enjoy it 1000 times more because u r american (cose if even the US fencer dont want it i think noone in the whole world will accept it !)

as ur president says : "god bless epee, saber, foil and the whole fencing"

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Bugaboo:
<STRONG> You misread my original note, then. It's the FIE's idea to introduce a new weapon system.
It's the rest of the world that will refuse.</STRONG>

I didn't misread it, I used it as a catalyst to discuss the process I am aware of, which was that the IOC requested this. The FIE was, last I knew, dead-set against it. Where are you getting your information?

-m

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Bugaboo:
<STRONG>Hmmm. How about that pesky off-target light for foil, then? If the FIE (or even the USFA) changed the rules to omit it entirely, would that be disrupting years of history and a proud tradition? There's no doubt that it would be a significant change to fencing tactics ("Hey, I can't stop his attack with an off-target to the arm anymore!") and training. Must it remain in existence forever, though?

Evolve or die. Change is constant.

Heck, they used to say the same thing about introducing electrical gear on the strip. And, of course, that totally destroyed the sport forever. ...</STRONG>

As Veeco said:

<STRONG>As someone pointed earlier, fencing has a history, and while I am not against changing some of the aspects of the game for the purpose of bringing it to the masses, I am not about to throw the whole thing away, reinvent a new sport, call it fencing, and hope that people will enjoy watching it. </STRONG>

The negative and positive must be weighed. Also, to do as you suggest is NOT evolution. Evolution is GRADUAL. what you are suggesting is that we throw away all prior evolution of the sport and cobble together a new sport from spare parts.

The negative aspects, IMO, CLEARLY outweigh the positive on this issue.

-m

[Bugaboo]

Evolution is NOT always (if ever) gradual. It happens in fits and starts.

Aging, on the other hand, is a gradual process. Allowing the cold, dead body to sink into the earth and become compost is a gradual process.

[soos]

okay lets forget evolution, i m proposing a revolution : 1 weapon : AXE : no rule, 1 "touch", no category, no male/female (i guess we ll lose some girls...) ... and we ll call that ultimate fencing.

as bugaboo said :
Revolve AND die (or sthg like this !?)

[Bugaboo]

Ultimate Fencing?

... Skates. We'll definitely needs in-line skates, too.

[DarkTransient]

Originally posted by epeemike81:
<STRONG>

Ahhh!!!! so it is real dueling you want! I'm sorry, your mistaking us with the "historical" fencing group down the street. This is a modern sport. It is NOT dueling, nor should it, IMNSHO, become such. Such crap should be reserved for the SCA.

-m</STRONG>

I don't know why you fence, but I fence because it simulates dueling, because electric fencing is the closest thing to the real thing. If you just want a sport that allows you to wield a stick, you should try golf instead.

"Such crap should be reserved for the SCA instead" Guess what? That's exactly what the older generation of fencers use to say about electrical fencing. Don't be suprised if someday you find your "modern fencing" part of the SCA.


- I fear change, I'll keep my bush instead.

[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: DarkTransient ]

[oiuyt]

Touches scored on the arms and the legs would be 1 point, touches scored on the torso would be two points (yeah, and HOW do you implement that?)

I've got an even easier system that uses equipment we alreaady have (and no, I'm not about to suggest we revert to human juries, although that COULD work....). Each fencer has a foil, each fencer has a foil lame, the machine is set to foil. Every colored light is 2 points, every white light is 1. Tada, you can go try out this new "weapon" tonight at your club. Of course it'd help if foils didn't have so many spurious off-target lights (I mean non-torso hit lights).

As for extreme fencing, let's do it all on a vert ramp while blading and see if we can't get into the X-Games.... THAT'LL make up for being eliminated from the Olympics!!!!!

-B

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Bugaboo:
<STRONG>Evolution is NOT always (if ever) gradual. It happens in fits and starts.

Aging, on the other hand, is a gradual process. Allowing the cold, dead body to sink into the earth and become compost is a gradual process.</STRONG>

Bugaboo,
Please review the concept of evolution with any HS biology teachers you might know....

In its normal form, evolution is a nub appearing on a rhino, and growing into an extra horn over time, because there is some advantage to this. In its most grand speed, evolution COULD be rhinos giving birth to offspring with an extra horn, and those offspring surviving since they have an advantage over other rhinos. What you are suggesting is more akin to rhinos giving birth to chickens.

But this is a moot point. The bottom line is that it is a bad idea.

-m

[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: epeemike81 ]

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by DarkTransient:
<STRONG>I don't know why you fence, but I fence because it simulates dueling, because electric fencing is the closest thing to the real thing. If you just want a sport that allows you to wield a stick, you should try golf instead.</STRONG>

I fence because I enjoy the sport. It has nothing to do with dueling. If I wanted to "simulate dueling" I WOULD join the SCA. Why take a modern fencing association and turn it into a classical one, of sorts, when many classical fencing associations already exist? Why reinvent the wheel? And if you ARE going to reinvent the wheel, why destroy a perfectly good wagon to do so?

<STRONG>"Such crap should be reserved for the SCA instead" Guess what? That's exactly what the older generation of fencers use to say about electrical fencing. Don't be suprised if someday you find your "modern fencing" part of the SCA.</STRONG>

really? I would like to be introduced to those of the older generation who suggested that electric fencing belonged in the Society for Creative Anachronism. But nonsensical statements aside, let me point out that what you are proposing is (in terms of its strategy, not scoring) a return to fencings "roots" of dueling. That is, indeed, the definition of classical.

Simple poll:

concerning DarkTransient's ideas for a new sport:

all in favor say aye.

all opposed, nay.

[epeemike81]

Nay.

-m

[DarkTransient]

I am absolutely against mutating fencing into some weirdo sport that has little to do with dueling itself.

I for one feel that fencing sport SHOULD evolve toward the real thing instead of diverging away from it. As the technology improves, fencing should become more and more realistic instead of less and less so.

So, I say AYE AYE AYE to any change that will make fencing more realistic.

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by DarkTransient:
<STRONG>I am absolutely against mutating fencing into some weirdo sport that has little to do with dueling itself.

I for one feel that fencing sport SHOULD evolve toward the real thing instead of diverging away from it. As the technology improves, fencing should become more and more realistic instead of less and less so.

So, I say AYE AYE AYE to any change that will make fencing more realistic.</STRONG>

Let me guess: you believe that flicking isn't a "real" attack....

[epeemike81]

So, Bugaboo, I notice that you have edited all your posts to remove the suggestion that it was the FIE's idea. May I take this to mean that you were mistaken?

-m

[veeco]

Yeah. Let's say aye to fencing with bare blades. This way we'll get rid of that stupid electric scoring box, and heck, most of our salles won't have to pay a rent, we can practise outdoors at dusk.

On the other side, I don't think I'll be able to join this new fencing that you are talking about. I already have a hard time waking up in the morning to go to work, let alone wake up to go get killed.

Also, we might be the only sport whose membership level never grows, but actually goes down.

Look at the movie 'rollerball' from the 80s. That's a good example of what we should all strive for. Now we're talking about sport. Heck, no time limits, no substitutions, it's still the same game right? You should also ban from fencing all people who can't talk with a proper Texan accent, because these are the real men, not the little Japanese people.

[veeco]

As I said earlier, this has been investigated a long time ago (at least 3 years). It was actually started by a French guy.

It never went through, and never will. Let's forget about this. If someone wants to try the idea, then they can create a new sport. Just don't use the word "fencing" because it's ours, copyrighted and trademarked by more than 1500 years of practice :-).

[veeco]

As for the point system, I think that's how they wanted to implement it. So now, we not only have to explain right of way, but we also have to explain that cheesy point system...

[attila]

Hi Bugaboo

I think your innocent post was highkacked by a very good troll. This is why I just wait for the FIE to put any new rules on paper. This thread is a complete waste of time. All we are going to get is polarity between our otherwise friendly folks. It should be like waiting for the next up-grade. Just keep using what you got 'till they release the next version. You get more work outta your day that way........

[DarkTransient]

The whole point of point system IS to remove right of way.

And, if using advaned technology to make fencing more realistic automatically translate to you as using real blades, than I can't help you there, obviously the word technology doesn't mean the same thing to us.

[d8m]

Free form fencing.
I think it could be a cool new sport!

We could call it 'Extreme Fencing'.
Or 'Ultimate Fencing Championship'!

Everyone could be required to wear bright costumes, and develop personalities to act on.
Some would be good guys, some bad guys.

And instead of winning trophies, we could win big gold belts! And have cool names like Captain Insano.

Then we would get some spectators, media coverage, and be considered a sport.

That would be cool.

Or for those conservative types who want to return to the duel, we could go classy...

Two guys on strip with sharp weapons.
Last guy standing wins.

That would get media attention.
Although, bleeding isn't as cool as winning a big gold belt.

[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: d8m ]