epee tactics against taller, stronger fencer?

[MyraTrue]

I've recently come into a quandry in my fencing. I regularly find myself fencing one of our mens epee team, 6'8", strong enough to dangle me by my ankles with one arm etc... and I am all of 5'6". It's hard to describe the situation between us in our fencing.

I find that if I attack, I'm lucky for a double. No matter how clear the way seems to be, it isn't. I have difficulty taking the blade, because its like moving a mountain. Complaints typical of the taller fencer, I suppose.

At the same time, I've tried to play a defensive game. My parries don't do much, which may be a fault in my parries. I find myself being run down the strip if I keep retreating from his attack with intent to counter, and its becomes a fine line between not wanting to deal with him when he attacks, and not wanting to attack, because neither is overly effective.

Does anyone have some suggestions? I recently talked with my previous coach, and he suggested a step in with parry two, or use of tierce or five. I can't seem to make any of these work (though they need time, and practice). I know I've been somewhat unhelpful in defining the problems in my fencing him, but I appreciate the help I can get all the same.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Fast, tight disengages can help. Also, go for the hand alot, and go for the foot alot. Do not let him take your blade, fence out of engagement, and far away. Us tall people HATE infighters, so if you can get inside his point, you use his height against him. Go for the wrist alot, its a close target. An attack pattern your should try is to move back and forth, in and out of range, fast, and on the second or third time you are out of range, go for the short advance-long low lunge, and try to hit under the arm, while your tip is on its way to his underarm, pull your back foot forward, and get ready to redouble to the chest or shoulder if you miss or he parries or moves his arm, if the redouble is unsuccessful, close the distance and go for infighting, where your lack of reach will give you the advantage. Good luck.

[keith]

as above,

Focus on your hit progression; hand, forearm, upper arm chest/head to try and reduce his fondness for the stop hit.

but make sure you work on him moving his blade laterally so you can close more safely. Also if you can get him to bite with a parry sixte then disengages to hit on thigh/foot will force him to think of low line parries which will further open your options.

don't try infighting as a magic solution since being tall with long arms is sometimes an advantage at close distance. Although you should make infighting practice one of your drills.

[achilleus]

I have a number of generic ideas...

First, outhink him. Fencing isn't only a physical game.

Second, preparation and attacks to the hand are all important for smaller fencers. Your epee's are the same length, and that helps even out touches to the hand. Therefore attacks and preparations to the hand are key. They can get you easy touches and draw predictable reactions from you opponent.

Third, move. A lot. Being shorter, doesn't neccessarily mean your faster, but your change of direction is. Getting him off balance is key to making successful attack.s

Fourth, taking the blade isn't so much about strength as leverage and timing. Before you attempt to take, make sure the blade is there to be taken. Make sure you take the blade properly, and control the weak of his with the strong of yours. Strength won't matter then.

Fifth, when you try score to the body either on attacks or counters, close hard and fast. Try to use fleches, and get him when he's taking his step forward. If your go slowly you just allow him more time to use his strength and height to his advantage.

Oh, and as a taller person, I love infighting, especially against smaller fencers. I love standing tall, and making the flick to the back. So, use infighting with caution.

[pacer]

I fence a lot of taller fencers and find that they often get too relaxed with the advantage their height gives them. They start to rely too much on their reach and don't pay as much attention to their defensive moves. The fleche, arm touches and controlling the tempo work for me.

[FoilyGeezer]

Ditto what Aechilleus said. I've watched a good epeeist (male) who's probably shorter than you are by a couple inches. He's a B (or may have just picked up his A). Three things he does extremely well:

(1) Fleche to the inside. Not off the strip but as an opening gambit. Take the blade or just move past it and try for the hit. If it doesn't land...

(2) make it your prep for an infighting tactic. He was landing foil-like inside shots staying as close to his opponents as he physically could get without actually commiting flagrant corps a corps. Angulating near vertical remises to the torso or arm.

(3) displace displace displace. His sense of distance was so acute that in a pool bout where I got only one touch on him, I never felt like I blew any of the five that he got on me. I invariably found him hanging out around a half an inch beyond wherever the point of my weapon happened to end up. I played a classic Wile E Coyote to his Bugs Bunny. I'd extend out as far as I could go and he'd be just out of reach ready to hand me a lit bundle of ACME dynamite.

[achilleus]

Forgot to add, when taking the blade, and trying to cover a large distance, one sometimes needs to make an extra blade action.

This can be a disengage if your opponent is retaking, or envelopement to keep control, or a second take if the opponent disengages, etc...

[Genjuro]

Also, you could use counter-time as a tactic.
Try to make your opponent move backward to make a counter-attack (usually tall people love to do this, because they can make good use of their lenght) on your attack or preperation, then bind his blade and finish the
attack.
But be careful at the moments when your opponent can reverse directions.

[MyraTrue]

*reads posts thus far* Excellent, exactly what I was looking for. All of it. I'm getting so far into my rut at this point, its hard to change my ways. Or even think far enough to realize what I'm doing, or what else I could be doing. This helps. Thanks!

[keith]

one thing to add to the counter time game is the ceding parry. Let him have your blade (slightly out of distance) and go with the pris de fer before ceding the parry at the last moment. Some retreating footwork on your part can help with timing/distance during the action.

[achilleus]

Defense.

You mentioned it, but the most important thing with defense is:

A) Variety
B) Preparation

Vary your defense. A mix of parries, counters, and distance are important ingredients.

And prepare. Your defense is ten times stronger* when your oppenent attacks when and where you want them to. How to do this? Constantly change the distance, and show them what they want when you want them to attack.

OK. I done. Back to work.

* Statistic has not yet been proven by the FIE, USFA, USFCA, or any other recognized organization.

[JEC]

Timing and Distance!
Only attack when your taller opponent is moving forward, and if so, either aim to the hand or forearm and retreat, or surprise and fleche.

[davesaint]

I have to disagree with DFP about going for the foot. I am 6'7" and seeing my opponent go for my foot is my favorite thing as it allows me to go over the top of my opponents blade and time them out in the shoulder. Infighting against a tall opponent is your best bet as sometimes it is very difficult for us tall people with long arms to bend them in such way to hit you. The key is quickness on the strip. If you let a tall fencer set the distance and keep it where he or she wants it you will be in trouble. I would work on your agility and quickness and use it to get inside.

[MyraTrue]

I have to disagree with DFP about going for the foot. I am 6'7" and seeing my opponent go for my foot is my favorite thing as it allows me to go over the top of my opponents blade and time them out in the shoulder.

Yes, I think thats true. This particular team mate has learned that I am practically obsessed with the toe. Granted, I may hit it once or twice in a 15 point match, but half the time I get drilled in the head or shoulder for it. That's a real "use with caution" fencing him, or "get a better toe touch".

Alright... packing up, going to fencing, got new things to try. *Crosses fingers*

[bjacobs]

Something you could try: on some touches, continuously make "attacks" on the hand. I say "attacks" because many of them can be flicks or extensions that you know will hit the bell or can't land. Make sure your arm is mostly extended so there's some real distance between you two if he tries to just lunge through your flicks. Look for him to jerk his arm back or up, and try to hit with more committed lunge under the arm, or fleche.

[SouthPaw]

I regularly fence A rated fencers that are 6'6"+ so I get kinda used to it. The best thing I've found is to play with distance. Either keep them really really far away so they have to reach to hit you, then pick up their blade when they're all outstretched, close distance, and hit them. They usually can't recover from deep lunges nearly as quickly as us shorties (im 5'7" myself; lefthanded, so that may make a bit of difference).

When they start to catch onto this, try mixing it up. Don't back up when they attack, but rather close the distance forward really fast with an opposition and surprise the hell out of them. Also try making them think you're farther away than you are, by either pulling your arm back slightly and inching forward, or inviting and inching forward, and blasting off into an opposition fleche, preferrably to the crook of the elbow or shoulder or some other advanced target, before they realize how damn close you got to them.

The biggest thing is to keep your distance and be patient and take any and all opportunities to pick off their hand. Don't feel like you have to get in all close all the time to be able to hit, play your distance smart and stay out of their reach until the opportune moment.

[SOA9286]

I'm one of the smaller epeeists..everyone who I fence, except this gal and this one lad, are all taller by about 6-7 inches..I'm in your boat..5'6" (7 on a good day!), and the one thing I learned is baiting. I bait most of the big boys in by going inside, drawing that "pick off", and then going for the arm/wrist/hand area. I find it works well, but it may eventually wear off because fencers do adapt.

Another technique is the quickness..i'm not a lightning bolt, but I think i'm pretty quick..in and outs are beautiful, but you have to be a god to beat the pick or the extension.

[Twinkletoes]

Fast, tight disengages can help. Also, go for the hand alot, and go for the foot alot. Do not let him take your blade, fence out of engagement, and far away. Us tall people HATE infighters, so if you can get inside his point, you use his height against him. Go for the wrist alot, its a close target. An attack pattern your should try is to move back and forth, in and out of range, fast, and on the second or third time you are out of range, go for the short advance-long low lunge, and try to hit under the arm, while your tip is on its way to his underarm, pull your back foot forward, and get ready to redouble to the chest or shoulder if you miss or he parries or moves his arm, if the redouble is unsuccessful, close the distance and go for infighting, where your lack of reach will give you the advantage. Good luck.

The distance between your hand,all the way up to the tip of your epee to your point touching HIS hand is exactly the same from your point of view, as to his point of view(reversed). In other words, when you attack his hand, you suffer no reach "penalty" in terms of his superior reach. (since your are targeting his nearest extremity at the point where he grasps the weapon)

If you go for a foot touch (which is deeper-in than a hand touch, you open
yourself up to a stop hit to the head; and with his longer arm, in this situation he would have a reach advantage.But not so when you go for the hand.


If I had to pick just one truth about your size difference and how to deal with it,this be would it.



cheers,

Marc

[SOA9286]

But would he have time to react with a stop hit if all you've been doing are hand hits (and then go for the foot)?

[Twinkletoes]

But would he have time to react with a stop hit if all you've been doing are hand hits (and then go for the foot)?

Possibly not.It would certainly make a great feint to go hand, hand ,hand, foot. I'm not saying don't ever go for the foot, simply that the foot
offers less "distance to target reach parity" than the hand does against a very tall fencer.

All of the other suggestions, including yours, are quite valid and helpfull.
He could not rely solely on hands hits to win a bout, as the opponent would eventually adapt.

It's simply that when you target his hand, you negate his giant reach advantage, and that, if only for reach negation, it could be your primary attack.

Cheers,

Marc