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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Maeve_Mari's Avatar
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    Talking Points for Brighter America

    Do you know any undecided voters? Were you raised by parents who always voted Republican because their own parents always did? Do you live in a state where Confederate flags are seen more frequently than peace signs?

    If you answered yes to any of the above, the following last-minute talking points might come in handy. Use them sparingly, smile and be patient. There is no higher calling for a voter than to influence other voters. Don't proselytize. Persuade.

    Talking Point #1: You and I will never have a beer with the President of the United States.

    Four years ago, an opinion poll showed that more people wanted to have a beer with George W. Bush than Al Gore. If Bush's claim of sobriety can be believed - and given his track record in office, it's a stretch - citizens who cast their vote for a putative beer buddy were wasting their time. In any case, no voters have ever had an opportunity to sink a cold one with him. Or, for that matter, with Al Gore.

    Talking Point #2: The President should speak foreign languages. He should also speak English.

    Only an idiot would think John Kerry's ability to speak French is a liability. We should hope that he might have a little conversational German, Russian, Spanish and Mandarin as well. A president, as the pundits never tire of pointing out, is The Leader of the Free World. Lest we forget, not everyone in the Free World speaks American. Yet.

    Bush apologists frequently claim that their boy's inability to utter a complete sentence is irrelevant. It is not. A president should be able to think and speak in complete paragraphs, never mind complete sentences.

    Talking Point #3: The President should read.

    Voraciously. Newspapers, briefing reports, websites, statistics, letters, maps. And books. Biographies, histories, fiction, poetry, criticism. He should also watch television, and not just cable news. (He should be able to successfully eat a pretzel or the crunchy snack food of his choosing while doing so.) He should also listen to the radio, and if a Beatles song from 1967 or later comes on, he should not rush to change the station.

    He should immerse himself in the media (mainstream, alternative, foreign, mass and otherwise) every chance he gets.

    Talking Point #4: The President should be aware of every mistake he has ever made.

    And never make the same mistake twice. If, for example, he enacts a tax cut skewed toward a demographic that doesn't need it, contributing mightily to deficits of historic proportions and failing utterly to create jobs, repeating the process over and over again will not somehow erase the mistake.

    If asked by a reporter or a citizen at a town-hall debate to name a mistake he has made, he should be able, instantly, to do so. He should also be able to explain why it was a mistake, how he made the mistake, what lesson he learned from it, and how he will avoid repeating it.

    Talking Point #5: Politicians lie. It's what they lie about that matters.

    The distance between "I did not have sex with that woman" and "Saddam Hussein is a grave and gathering threat" can be measured in corpses.

    When Ronald Reagan talked of "morning in America," when George H. W. Bush spoke of "a thousand points of light," they were lying. When FDR said there was nothing to fear "but fear itself," he too was fibbing. Some presidential lies are part of a necessary national mythology.

    Others are mendacious, destructive and damnable. Anyone incapable of discriminating between these categories is probably dumb enough to vote based on which candidate would make a better drinking buddy (see Talking Point #1).

    Talking Point #6: Leadership is not stubbornness.

    A president unable to change his mind probably doesn't have one.

    Leadership is not willful ignorance. It is not bluster and bullying. It is not careless delegation of responsibilities to incompetents, crooks and hacks. It is not betraying the public interest to reward private interests.

    Presidential leadership is the thoughtful, careful, tactful, patient and, yes, sensitive setting of direction to solve problems and create opportunities for progress. It is action based on considered judgment. It is inclusive and inspirational. It doesn't dismiss millions of dissenting voices as "a focus group." It doesn't appropriate toughness from cowboy movies. And it most certainly doesn't take as many days off as George W. Bush has.

    Talking Point #7: American citizenship is not an entitlement to selfishness.

    It is precisely the opposite, a call to fellow-feeling both for other Americans and for the rest of the world. All the maddening faults of this country pale next to its successes as a pluralistic, open society. This is something the Left should remember and celebrate.

    What the Right needs to remember is that there is a Left, and that it comes far closer to mirroring the beliefs of most citizens than the Right ever will. America is strong because most Americans recognize a greater, communal good. It becomes weak when selfishness, insularity, xenophobia and greed (all hallmarks of the Bush years) define relationships between Americans, and with the wider world.

    Talking Point #8: There is not a terrorist hiding in your garage.

    Anyone old enough to remember the Vietnam War probably also remembers the absurdist rhetoric about fighting the Communists in Southeast Asia so we wouldn't have to fight them in Kansas. This is hauntingly familiar because it's being repeated so often now, with Terrorists substituted for Communists.

    We can in no way treat the horrific events of September 11 or the Madrid bombings as anything but crimes against humanity. It doesn't follow, however, that Arab suicide bombers are hanging around your neighborhood Winn-Dixie. You're much likelier to be struck by a meteor than to be killed by a terrorist, and not because Tom Ridge showed you some paint samples and urged you to buy duct tape.

    Yes, these days the United States military can only envy recruitment rates among Islamic radical groups. That still doesn't mean there's a sleeper cell in your sock drawer.
    Last edited by Maeve_Mari; 10-18-2004 at 03:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Capt. Slo-mo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari
    Talking Point #6: Leadership is not stubbornness.
    Leadership is not willful ignorance. It is not bluster and bullying. It is not careless delegation of responsibilities to incompetents, crooks and hacks. It is not betraying the public interest to reward private interests.
    The choir issues a heart-felt AMEN!
    Bush during debate:"I'm a good steward of the land..."
    "Sometimes we, as coaches, get into that dictator mode where you just tell and you don't listen and you don't try to understand them." Tom Izzo, Mich. St.
    "Fraud is the creation of trust. And then: its betrayal."
    William Black, Ph.D.

  3. #3
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    Uh... methinks you may have posted this to the wrong folder. Mod, to the politics folder, yes?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array riptide's Avatar
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    The distance between "I did not have sex with that woman" and "Saddam Hussein is a grave and gathering threat" can be measured in corpses.
    well said.
    "Sometimes you want to give up the guitar, you'll hate the guitar. But if you stick with it, you're gonna be rewarded."
    -Jimi Hendrix

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Moonitic's Avatar
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    Telling people they're "not so bright" because of their choice is certainly no way to win people to your side, regardless of the side you're on.

    Instead of reasons why not to vote for someone, again, I challenge EVERYONE with this: Can you give good reasons why the undecided should vote for your candidate (whomever he is) WITHOUT saying even one negative thing about the opponent? Yes, that is a challenge, but it is possible. Several people on a writing message board that I belong to were finally able to do that, after the many people I've posed with the same question. Let's see if anyone here is capable of it too. So far, I'm not seeing it. Prove me wrong.

    Remember: The answer cannot come in the form of "So & so is better than so & so because at least so & so didn't do this...." or "does that." No. I want, "So & so has done this...& this. And he is able to do this." Things like that. Keep the smear campaign out of it. Give us some good facts about the GOOD your candidate has done, not the bad that the opponent has done. If Kerry is elected, he's not going to be able to run the country on "Well, at least I'm not George Bush" & nothing else. Same with Bush on Kerry. They have to have something going for THEM (not against their opponent) in order to lead for the next four years.

    Anyone up for the challenge?

    (You'll notice that I didn't take any sides myself in my statement. Instead, I challenged supporters from both sides to "lay their cards on the table," so to speak. I'm sick of the bickering. I'd like some facts that don't include, "Well, he started it!" & silly finger pointing. Name calling & childish antics should be left to the playground politics, not the presidency.)

    Well? Want to give it a try?
    "Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind."

    -- Rudyard Kipling

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Soldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari
    There is no higher calling for a voter than to influence other voters. Don't proselytize. Persuade.
    I don't think I agree with your first point.

    And considering your second sentence, why are you here proselytizing?
    There are no damn chickens in my room!
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array Maeve_Mari's Avatar
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    Okay. Here's a few thoughts on Why John Kerry:

    John Kerry has plan to make America stronger at home and respected in the world. Creating jobs and keeping them in America. Making health care affordable for every American. Rebuilding the alliances that are crucial to winning the peace in Iraq. Here are some of the key points and outlines for John Kerry and the Democratic Party and why Americans should vote for John Kerry and John Edwards.

    Jobs
    John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to help create millions of high-paying jobs. America's dynamic entrepreneurs and talented workers are capable of creating millions of jobs each year. We've done it before: in Clinton's first term the economy created more than 11 million new jobs. And with the Kerry-Edwards plan to put the right policies in place we can do it again.
    For John Kerry and John Edwards, making America more competitive means investing in more jobs at higher wages.
    John Kerry has a plan to jumpstart job growth right now. This includes a New Jobs Tax Credit which would provide a payroll tax holiday for new hires in manufacturing, other businesses affected by outsourcing, and small businesses.
    His plan would end tax breaks for companies that move jobs overseas and use the savings to cut the corporate rate by 5 percent, providing a tax cut for 99 percent of taxpaying corporations.
    John Kerry would make America more competitive by reducing the burden on the middle class. He would cut the deficit in half in the first Kerry term as president, cut health care premiums by up to $1,000 a year, and move America towards energy independence to bring down energy costs.
    Terror
    John Kerry will lead a new era of broad alliances to execute a more effective war on terror.
    To help win the war on terror and strengthen the military to meet new threats, John Kerry will increase our troop strength by 40,000 and double our special forces capability.
    Kerry will deploy all the power in America's arsenal -- military, diplomacy, intelligence, economic power and the force of our values -- to keep America secure.
    He will lead the world in a mission to lock up and safeguard nuclear weapons material so terrorists can never acquire it.
    Kerry's plan will secure vulnerable bomb-making materials, prevent the production of new materials for nuclear weapons, and work to end nuclear weapons programs in hostile states like North Korea and Iran.
    As president, John Kerry will keep us safer at home by investing in our first responders; securing and protecting our nuclear and chemical facilities; bolstering port, rail, and aviation security; and strengthening and improving information sharing.
    Iraq
    John Kerry has a plan to internationalize the security and reconstruction effort by making Iraq part of NATO's global mission and by involving allies in rebuilding the country, providing troops and financial commitments.
    He will implement an international effort to coordinate reconstruction efforts, draft the national constitution, and organize elections. Under John Kerry, we will work with allies to forgive Iraq's multi-billion dollar debts.
    Kerry will convene a regional conference with Iraq's neighbors in order to secure a pledge of respect for Iraq's borders and non-interference in Iraq's internal affairs.
    John Kerry will launch a massive training effort to build a professional Iraqi security force, including a major role for NATO. This is not a task for America alone; we must join as a partner with other nations.
    Health Care
    John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to address the soaring cost of health care that will cut premiums by up to $1,000 and help insure an additional 27 million Americans who don't have health coverage.
    Kerry and Edwards will put medical decisions in the hands of doctors and their patients and stop bureaucrats who nothing about medicine from making life and death decisions.
    The Kerry-Edwards plan will provide prescription drug relief that allows Americans the discounts available in Canada.
    John Kerry and John Edwards believe that every American deserves the same quality of care that members of Congress receive and will allow every American to enroll in that system.
    The Kerry-Edwards plan gives tax cuts to small businesses to help them cover their workers.
    Social Security
    John Kerry and John Edwards want to protect and strengthen Social Security.
    The first step in their plan is to grow the economy. Kerry and Edwards have a plan to jump-start growth today and invest in stronger long-run growth. A larger economy will be in a better position to pay for an increasing number of retirees.
    Second, they want to restore fiscal discipline and the commitment to not pass debt on to our children. You cannot even begin to move toward solving our long-term Social Security and Medicare problems until you have a president who is committed to restoring the basic rules of fiscal discipline.
    Last, John Kerry and John Edwards are committed to genuine bipartisan reform of Social Security. They know that go-it-alone strategies and commissions with predetermined agendas don't work. We cannot reform Social Security and Medicare without real bipartisanship and responsibility.
    Education
    John Kerry and John Edwards' National Education Trust Fund will provide the funds necessary to raise standards and ensure all children can reach them.
    Kerry and Edwards will ensure that the accountability measures in No Child Left Behind actually work. They have a plan to help 1 million more students graduate in the next five years.
    John Kerry and John Edwards know that we need more high-quality teachers in America. Good teachers are vital to closing the achievement gap. They will recruit or retain 500,000 teachers over the next four years. They have a plan to reward excellence and require results for our kids.
    To relieve the fiscal pressure on states that causes tuitions to rise, John Kerry and John Edwards have proposed $25 billion in aid to states. Their plan includes $50 billion in tax credits to help Americans afford all four years of college.
    Environment
    John Kerry and John Edwards will strengthen the Clean Air Act by plugging enforcement loopholes, reducing mercury emissions, and stopping acid rain. They support aggressive action to meet ozone and particulate air quality standards.
    Their plan will address emissions of the gases that contribute to climate change through programs that drive technology change and create jobs.
    They will reverse the Bush administration's weakening of drinking water standards. and support comprehensive protection of the nation's wetlands, watersheds, and coastlines.
    Their plan will renew the nation's commitment to the Superfund program by working with Congress to reinstate make sure polluters in the oil and chemical industries pay to clean up their messes.
    They will promote environmental justice by creating Environmental Empowerment Zones where federal Superfund cleanup dollars will be spent on a priority basis.
    John Kerry and John Edwards are deeply committed to the sound stewardship of the nation's parks and public lands.
    Energy
    John Kerry and John Edwards have a comprehensive energy plan that will reduce dependence on foreign oil.
    The Kerry-Edwards energy plan invests in domestic renewable energy like wind and solar, and improves auto fuel efficiency -- and at the same time will create the new manufacturing and technology jobs of the future.
    Their plan provides incentives to help Americans use energy more cleanly and efficiently.
    John Kerry will create a new partnership to expand the supply of natural gas, and develop and deploy clean electric power from coal.
    The Kerry-Edwards plan assures that 20 percent of electricity comes from renewable sources by 2020.
    Their plan cuts the government's energy bill 20 percent by 2020 -- saving taxpayers $14 billion over the next ten years.
    Deficit
    John Kerry has a record of fighting to reduce the federal deficit. He was one of the first Democratic Senators to support the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings deficit reduction plan. He voted for President Clinton's 1993 deficit reduction plan and the 1997 Balanced Budget Act.
    John Kerry and John Edwards will not raise taxes on middle-class Americans by one dime -- they will cut them, including tax cuts to make health care and education more affordable. Under Kerry's plan, 98 percent of Americans will pay lower taxes.
    Kerry and Edwards would restrain spending, ensuring that all discretionary spending, other than security and education, does not grow any faster than inflation.
    The Kerry-Edwards plan also addresses America's other deficit -- the rapidly rising cost of health care and the tens of millions of uninsured -- with a plan to make health care more affordable for all Americans.
    Deficit reduction is good for the economy and jobs. The Kerry-Edwards plan will help give America's businesses the confidence they need to start hiring again, keep interest rates down, and avoid the looming crisis that could result from the growing deficits.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Moonitic's Avatar
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    Okay, Maeve, that's great. But I do have to ask (& I wonder about this with all political candidates)..."will" they do all this, or do you hope they will based on what they said they'd do? Do they have a comprehensive plan in the works, ready to take off when they get the green light? Will Congress approve?

    See, I worry when anyone says, "We will do this" as a part of getting what they want. What have they done in the past to show that they will come through in the future? That's really what I'd like to know at this point (as indicated above). Does their history speak well of them?

    Anyone else care to take the challenge?
    "Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind."

    -- Rudyard Kipling

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array darius's Avatar
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    In a time where the mainstream media is thriving off partisan bickering, and the campaign for the presidency resembles a reality show, it is difficult to sift through the spin to find relevant information about the candidates.

    Kerry has a natural appetite for building consensus and getting lots of information before making a decision. His management style involves obtaining differing opinions and debating them to obtain the strongest decision. That intellectual curiosity should be an asset in decisions where lives are at stake, and contains the greatest potential for generating new policy to push America forward.

    darius

    Interesting articles:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Oct12.html
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6262620/site/newsweek/

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array S. Hunter's Avatar
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    All of the above boils down to:

    George Bush is an authoritarian bastard.

    John Kerry is an authoritarian bastard.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Moonitic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. Hunter
    All of the above boils down to:

    George Bush is an authoritarian bastard.

    John Kerry is an authoritarian bastard.
    Okay, so you're voting for "neither," apparently. Will you choose Nader? If so, why? Remember the rule to the challenge: No negative comments toward the opposition.

    I would, in all honestly, love to hear someone's thoughts on Nader at this point in the game.
    "Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind."

    -- Rudyard Kipling

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array S. Hunter's Avatar
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    Badnarik, actually. Nader is really an attention *****, he doesn't really care about the issues or real change or he would be running with an acutal party. He only cares about nader - If he didn't he would be promoting a party that will outlive him that can work for change.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array MikeHarm's Avatar
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    Nader is the none of the above canidate for bitter liberals I think.


  14. #14
    Senior Member Array gulebukser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari
    John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to help create millions of high-paying jobs. America's dynamic...
    I thought that the idea was to write your own material about the canidates.

    Source?
    etc.
    Ленин, как, так полностью скалы

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array Maeve_Mari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gulebukser
    I thought that the idea was to write your own material about the canidates.

    Source?
    etc.
    But why should I rewrite it?
    Those are the reasons why I would select Kerry over Bush. Because the things he has plans to do are more reasonable to me than any I've heard from Bush planned for the next four years. I didn't like what he did in his term as president and don't think he can pull it together for any sort of change or progress for the future either.

    The source - I don't have it right now, (can get it if it is urgent to you) but it was either KerryforPresident.com or the DemocraticNationalCommittee.com - pretty basic stuff. And there are details out there too.

    One thing, as we keep hearing from critics - where are the details, what is Kerry's plan? We shouldn't forget that 90% of us have only heard the plan as outlined in 2 minute pieces or 90 second rebuttals. Going to sites like the DNC or Kerry site can provide for your information a plethera of details on how he will execute on his promises and plans.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Array jeff's Avatar
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    I quite agree with Maeve_Mari's points - including why you would go to each party's sites for details of their plans, rather than the 90 second versions. My only complaint is: the thread is in the wrong folder!
    "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."

  17. #17
    Curmudgeon Emeritus Array Inquartata's Avatar
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    To be fair, the "details" on their "plans" are not much more copious on their websites. They're laid out more long-windedly and in more glowing language, but there's still precious few nuts and bolts. This is one of my biggest complaints with politics today: we get served glittering generalities with a generous helping of vagueness on the side, together with many ambiguous promises, but very little in the way of real detail. I guess because no one wants to be pinned down during the campaign or held to account afterward...

  18. #18
    Senior Member Array Moonitic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquartata
    To be fair, the "details" on their "plans" are not much more copious on their websites. They're laid out more long-windedly and in more glowing language, but there's still precious few nuts and bolts. This is one of my biggest complaints with politics today: we get served glittering generalities with a generous helping of vagueness on the side, together with many ambiguous promises, but very little in the way of real detail. I guess because no one wants to be pinned down during the campaign or held to account afterward...
    Quite true, which makes me concerned about future promises, & makes me ask "What has the person done in the (political) past that might make him a good leader now?" Sure, anyone can say, "Vote for me & I'll do this..." but do you notice that they have to ask you to vote for them first, before they do something positive? What about when they were in their other offices? Did they come through?

    I'm still leaning toward Snoopy.
    "Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind."

    -- Rudyard Kipling

  19. #19
    Gav
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    Off to the Politics folder with you.

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