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D+F+P=Hadouken! · 10-15-2004, 04:30 PM

Okay.. I've gotten most of my students to advance correctly, retreat correctly, and they can do a parry correctly in practice. The problem that they have is their overall fencing style. With their footwork, its like, they do one advance at a time, when it needs to be one continous forward movement. How do I teach my students to do their footwork as one continous forward or backward motion? I'm trying to get them to fence like a tournament fencer before the NAC in april so they dont get totally destroyed.

glowstix · 10-15-2004, 04:46 PM

why don't you have them do:
1. combinations: adv-adv-adv-ret, adv-adv-ret-ret-ret, jump-adv-adv, etc...
2. pair them off and do footwork facing each other focusing on keeping the right distance all the time. kinda like the game of "tag", i think its called.
3. do footwork exercises with the blades and in pairs.

AndrewH · 10-15-2004, 05:13 PM

Try strip suicides. Just like the suicide drill you'd do for basketball/track, but with fencing footwork instead. Advance to the first line, retreat back. Advance to the next line, retreat back, etc for each line. Start the first round slow, once you see they're capable of correct footwork at that speed, speed it up and so on until it's full speed forward full speed backward. Make it into a race, last 3 back have to do pushups.

Cyrno · 10-15-2004, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Okay.. I've gotten most of my students to advance correctly, retreat correctly, and they can do a parry correctly in practice. The problem that they have is their overall fencing style. With their footwork, its like, they do one advance at a time, when it needs to be one continous forward movement. How do I teach my students to do their footwork as one continous forward or backward motion? I'm trying to get them to fence like a tournament fencer before the NAC in april so they dont get totally destroyed.

It sounds like most of your students have just started fencing. Why then are they going to an NAC if they are still haveing trouble with basic footwork and bladework.

Artisan · 10-15-2004, 07:00 PM

Demonstrate the difference between a double advance and two advances. Drill them on the difference between an advance, and advance lunge, and a double advance lunge.

Make sure when you demonstrate that your double advance is done with an increasing tempo 1........2....3..4

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 10-15-2004, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrno

It sounds like most of your students have just started fencing. Why then are they going to an NAC if they are still haveing trouble with basic footwork and bladework.

Because its a NAC in the hometown. Its not an opprotunity I want them to pass up. Most of them have less then 6 months experience.

MyraTrue · 10-16-2004, 06:25 PM

Every suggestion seems based on the same idea- everyone needs time and practice to become comfortable with footwork. The more they use it, the more they'll be able to make the advance and retreat into a fluid single motion. The more they have to do things like suicides, the more they are forced to practice.

Something our club always did with beginners was relays. We'd divide up into teams. You can even toss in a few advanced fencers, it doesn't really matter. But you tell them that everyone has to... for example, advance to the wall and retreat back. The first group to get everyone down and back wins. Of course, you can tell them if you see them doing bad footwork, they have to start over.

The idea is, its a competition, its friendly, and you can pretty much mix it up any way you want. And its fun, so people enjoy it.

But I still think nothing but time and practice will give them what you'd like them to have. And going to tournaments is the best eye opener to how tourmanet fencing really is. Beginners practice can never teach you to move the way a tournament fencer does, though it helps. experiene.

And good luck

sabreur · 10-16-2004, 08:06 PM

The problem with all these suggestions is that they emphasize speed over correct execution.

Any dummy can gallop up and down the strip at reasonable speed.

To be a fencer, you need to be able to advance and retreat, on balance and in control, while observing your opponent, and act/reacting correctly to the opponent's actions.

I would not let fencers with six months experience participate in a national level event.

I would take them to watch the finals.

MR

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 10-16-2004, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabreur

The problem with all these suggestions is that they emphasize speed over correct execution.

Any dummy can gallop up and down the strip at reasonable speed.

To be a fencer, you need to be able to advance and retreat, on balance and in control, while observing your opponent, and act/reacting correctly to the opponent's actions.

I would not let fencers with six months experience participate in a national level event.

I would take them to watch the finals.

MR

I dont want speed, I want smoothness and economy of movement. Work on speed, and work on form, and then work on speed again. Get it fast, and polish it to correct form. Its like blacksmithing, you heat the metal, and then you temper it. Again, and again, and again. I normally wouldnt take my pupils to such a large tournament, but its in town, so I'd hate to pass down this chance.

MHS Fencer · 10-16-2004, 08:47 PM

You learn by fencing up - I think it's right to take advantage of a NAC in your backyard. That experience makes the difference later on.

I'm assuming that they are competing in the youth categories, which also means that you can just get lucky and end up doing well even as a novice, but make sure that they expect to get knocked out first round and then tell them to have fun.

In terms of making advances smoother, you first need to build up their leg strength - have them advance, squat as low as possible, and repeat the length of a strip, then do it retreating - have them do this several times each day and they'll have strong legs. Once their legs are strong enough then you can focus on making the actions smooth - until then it's hopeless.

VorpalCat · 10-16-2004, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyraTrue

The idea is, its a competition, its friendly, and you can pretty much mix it up any way you want. And its fun, so people enjoy it.

Very true! And you know, as dumb as it sounds, playing a kids' game like 'Red Light, Green Light' seems to work surprisingly well too. Just add one person to monitor footwork while the leader's back is turned so cruddy footwork gets one sent to the back to start over again. (I restricted it to simple advances only since I was just giving the idea a test drive that night.) My thought was that the game would add having to be able to stop/start quickly and cleanly based on a visual cue, not verbal, in addition to just being something different for that night.

And the funny thing was, by the end of the game, the ones with the biggest eye-rolls when we started (i.e. some of the ones who have been fencing for a few years) had the biggest grins when we finished, even though they didn't necessarily win. I'm thinking about trying the same thing for retreats (first one to the FAR side of the gym wins) just to see if it works as well. I've been thinking something equally silly, like 'Mother, May I?', might be fun to drop on them one night, just to change things up on them a bit.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 10-16-2004, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MHS Fencer

You learn by fencing up - I think it's right to take advantage of a NAC in your backyard. That experience makes the difference later on.

I'm assuming that they are competing in the youth categories, which also means that you can just get lucky and end up doing well even as a novice, but make sure that they expect to get knocked out first round and then tell them to have fun.

In terms of making advances smoother, you first need to build up their leg strength - have them advance, squat as low as possible, and repeat the length of a strip, then do it retreating - have them do this several times each day and they'll have strong legs. Once their legs are strong enough then you can focus on making the actions smooth - until then it's hopeless.

haha, I think I'm gonna make them do toe taps when they lose bouts. Good way to strengthen the legs. I need to learn how to orchestrate group bladework drills. Alot of them are doing big circular parries, the windshield wiper thing, and I need to teach them a few parry's, and really get it grilled into their skull. I'm trying to transform newbies into people that wont get totally munched. It would make my heart soar if just one of them could win one bout in the pools.

samh · 10-17-2004, 06:51 PM

Hey DFP your profile says you were born in 1990 and have a year of fencing experience... Why did you start coaching already?

jBirch · 10-18-2004, 07:35 PM

Hey DFP,

I'm surprised that no one offered simple keeping the distance drills. As a coach, you can moderate these (fast or slow, large or small) depending on the class, can show proper footwork as you go and can keep an eye on everyone as they go. It's really ideal for your kind of problem.

The other way that I find works well, is to have the kids fence with a glove instead of a weapon. Chest hits only, proper footwork only. Once one kid has made a swish, the opponent can then attack. Limit the footwork to only 2 or three advances and see what happens.

The key is to slow down and do everything smoothly. Remember that at the beginner level you are not training knowledge: you are training muscles. Just keep doing footwork and try to keep the footwork interesting and it will come.

Take it easy.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 10-18-2004, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samh

Hey DFP your profile says you were born in 1990 and have a year of fencing experience... Why did you start coaching already?

Well, It will be two years fencing experience in a month or two. The job sort of fell into my hands. The inner city glass was run by an elderly maestro, not a bad maestro, but by now, she's a little nutty, and in good, but descending health. Gradually I started doing little things, like leading warm ups, and correcting peoples form. I've moved on to conducting footwork drills, orchestrating line drills (bladework) and giving private lessons. I find myself explaining ROW alot, as well as tempo, footwork nuances, tactical theory, opening lines, second intention and the development theory. I know this sounds weird, but when I'm not coaching, I'm thinking about a theory of hand intelligence, where the hand starts to think for itself, and the mind is left to worry about other things. Like, the hand starts to read feelings from the opponents blade, and starts to make decisions. My newest challenge is taking these rawbies and making them into fencers who are competitive. Some of them dont have the fightyness, so I'm trying to weed out the people who dont have the drive through a seive of training. Currently I have twenty regular students, and I plan to get four to go to the NAC. Partly its who can afford it (I'm willing to earn the money to pay their entry fees) and its who works the hardest and has the spirit to go the distance. I'm no Arkady Burdan, but I wouldn't call myself a bad coach.