10-13-2004, 02:39 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,464
| Why You Shouldnt be a Vigilante
(or hang around bar brawls with a gun in your hand)
Man who shared $87 million jackpot slain amid brawl at stadium
A man shot to death by police outside a football stadium has been identified by his family as one of the winners of an $87 million lottery jackpot.
Rick Camat, 32, was shot early Sunday as dozens of people fled to avoid a fight outside a bar before a St. Louis Rams-Seattle Seahawks game.
Police alleged that Camat was carrying a handgun and fired at a car that was leaving the area. Authorities said he crouched behind another vehicle and pointed a handgun at officers.
Relatives insisted Camat only fired into the air to break up the fight and said officers never issued a warning before shooting him.
“He shot once in the air to scare people away. He didn’t aim it at anyone,” said Camat’s brother, Brian, who was with him at the time.
Officer Debra Brown said the family’s account “differs vastly from the statements of dozens of witnesses who were at the scene that evening.”
The officer who fired at Camat remains on paid administrative leave. An internal police review and a court inquest are planned.
Camat was one of 13 Starbucks employees in Los Angeles who shared an $87 million California lottery jackpot in 2000.
He recently bought a house in Federal Way, a suburb between Seattle and Tacoma, relatives said. He previously used his share of the lottery winnings to buy a house for his mother and cars for his siblings.
Last edited by Maeve_Mari; 10-13-2004 at 02:48 PM.
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|  | | And now for this message... |
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10-13-2004, 02:40 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004 Location: U.S. of F-ing A.
Posts: 1,926
| Wow. Two things:
1. DON'T GO AROUND WITH A BLOODY HANDGUN IN YOUR POCKET! POLICE WILL SHOOT YOU!
2. poor man.
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thetheory.tk
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10-13-2004, 04:10 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: My happy place!
Posts: 1,514
| *cringes* The police are getting out of hand....
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Sarah 
Probitas lauditur et alget.
Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
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10-13-2004, 04:26 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: London
Posts: 1,216
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Sarah *cringes* The police are getting out of hand.... | Yep ... when they show up at a bar brawl that was crazy enough that people were running away (most bar brawls prompt people to turn and watch), and find a guy not only with a gun, not only brandishing a gun, but FIRING it, and they shot him.
One can only wonder why ... clearly firing a gun in public on a busy city street ("dozens of people" and pre-football game) -- whether actually at fleeing cars, as police indicate, or more or less randomly, as his family is claiming -- ought to make the police think that you're as harmless as a kitten, and not someone who is causing a threat to the public's (and their own) safety.
And if the police story is true -- well, pointing a gun at the police is even dumber. When the police show up, you're supposed to put it down ... | |
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10-13-2004, 04:50 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Carstairs, AB, Canada
Posts: 3,310
| Dad always said that lottery tickets were a tax on stupidity. This story confirms it.
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If it's stupid, but it works, it's not stupid.
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10-13-2004, 04:59 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,969
| I feel sorry for the guy - I mean, he is dead after all - but gee, this is pretty much in "Darwin Award" territory. Don't wave a gun around and fire it, especially when the cops are there, Don't point gun at them. If you have a gun. put it on the floor and move away from it, with slow, unhurried motions...
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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10-13-2004, 05:02 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,091
| This has nothing to do with vigilantism - this is stupidity straight-up. | |
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10-13-2004, 05:05 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,280
| Also, a thing to remember about shooting at the sky: what goes up must come down. | 
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10-13-2004, 05:24 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,464
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Sarah *cringes* The police are getting out of hand.... | Errrr - Gun brandishing drunks, attempting to secure the peace in a crowd by shooting a gun - even if only in the air - is getting out of hand. The police are the body charged with securing the peace in a crowd and they don't need armed help! | |
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10-13-2004, 06:05 PM
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#10 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Ohio
Posts: 68
| Recently in Ohio they passed a concealed carry law that lets people conceal weapons...one of the places that you aren't allow to carry a concealled weapon...you guessed it: a bar! There's a good reason for that.
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You seem a decent fellow, I hate to kill you.
You seem a decent fellow, I hate to die.
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10-13-2004, 07:18 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,969
| Alcohol and guns - always a heady combination. That's why I always wondered about the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms - were they supposed to make recommendations, like, what kind of beer goes well with a Tek9? 
__________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
Last edited by jeff; 10-13-2004 at 07:21 PM.
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10-13-2004, 07:35 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Neverland.
Posts: 483
| Why shouldn't one be a vigilante? (RQ) One should always be vigil, one should always be proactive, and the Proactive are the Players, and if you Play you have to Pay...so Ante-up. And everyone should know by now, it is Blessed to ask for Forgiveness...far more than asking for Permission. | |
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10-13-2004, 08:23 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,280
| Let us all now go and watch Boondock Saints.
Vigilantism == bad because it is essentially anarchy ie. a vigilante unlike a police officer does not need formal training and is under no specific legal obligations. | |
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10-13-2004, 08:31 PM
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#14 | | No, your mom's a lemur
Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: None of your Damn buisiness! Or California.
Posts: 2,717
| <-Idiot vigilante. I always end up sticking up for people I never met before.  | |
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10-13-2004, 10:44 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004 Location: U.S. of F-ing A.
Posts: 1,926
| *tch. stupid man*
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thetheory.tk
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10-14-2004, 12:47 AM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 256
| Vigilantes arise when the population feels the police aren't doing their jobs. It is not because they are a form of anarchy, they are a by product of anarchy.
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"Man is how he behaves sword in hand."
"Fencers only recognize fencers, potential fencers and hopeless invalids."
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10-14-2004, 09:44 AM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,091
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by telkanuru Let us all now go and watch Boondock Saints.
Vigilantism == bad because it is essentially anarchy ie. a vigilante unlike a police officer does not need formal training and is under no specific legal obligations. | Sure...if you have a capable and fair police force. | |
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10-14-2004, 10:14 AM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,468
| Vigilante's are only needed when the justice system is corrupt. Sometimes a man must shame the law in order to bring to attention its inadequacies.
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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10-14-2004, 10:42 AM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: UK
Posts: 1,565
| ...or alternatively "why you shouldn't live ina country where every Tom, Dick and Harry can go round brandishing a gun - including the police"
PS that was partly tongue in cheek and mischievous. I am not having a pop at the constitution *peers nervously into the sky for a stars-'n'-stripes thunderbolt*
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Louweasel
"I grew up in Europe, where the history comes from" [Eddie Izzard]
"she might not look like much, kid, but she's got it where it counts"
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10-14-2004, 10:52 AM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,468
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Louweasel ...or alternatively "why you shouldn't live ina country where every Tom, Dick and Harry can go round brandishing a gun - including the police"
PS that was partly tongue in cheek and mischievous. I am not having a pop at the constitution *peers nervously into the sky for a stars-'n'-stripes thunderbolt* | The second amendment was created to protect the first. The very nature of government is corrupt, and it is the people that keep it in line. When our rights to bear arms are slowly eroded, we crawl closer to what will be oppression. If the citizens can not protect themselves from the government, then who will? Taking away firearms is the first step toward the abolition of freedom. Please note that this is just my opinion, and if we are to discuss this further, let us do so in a civil manner.
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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