10-13-2004, 06:57 AM
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#1 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 59
| Penthalon
What is a modern penthalon(sp?)and what has fencing got to do with it?Thanks. | 
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10-13-2004, 07:13 AM
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#2 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 22,924
| Pentathlon is a sport made up of five ( penta- ) events, of which one-touch epee is one. The others are running, swimming, shooting and riding. | |
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10-13-2004, 09:58 AM
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#3 | | Épéeist Hive Queen
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sweden
Posts: 12,658
| There are other "pentathlons" (can you say that in english?) as well, but Modern pentathlon is the only including fencing.
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10-13-2004, 11:50 AM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: UK
Posts: 1,565
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen "pentathlons" (can you say that in english?) | Yes! (and characters...)
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Louweasel
"I grew up in Europe, where the history comes from" [Eddie Izzard]
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10-13-2004, 12:02 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,483
| The soldier rides his horse into battle, is dismounted, fights with his gun, uses his ammo up, fights with his sword, runs away and swims over the river.
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10-13-2004, 04:33 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,117
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! The soldier rides his horse into battle, is dismounted, fights with his gun, uses his ammo up, fights with his sword, runs away and swims over the river. | Just as minor correction -- it's a military courier, not a soldier. He's supposed be carrying a message, starting out on horseback (has to ride cross country, which is why its a jumping event, not a horse race), is ambushed and has to shoot it out (target shooting -- with a pistol if memory serves, not a carbine), runs out of ammo and has to use his sword (epee), then escapes, but has to ford a river (swimming), and then has to run to deliver his message (the distance running event). | |
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10-13-2004, 04:49 PM
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#7 | | Armorer
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,406
| The actual competition is not like the individual competitions. For example, the riding is on a horse you have never riden, the fencing is 1 touch not, 5, 10 or 15, the shooting is 1 at a time and you have a very small time in which to shoot each shot. The only event that is similar to the regular event is swimming, which is 400 meters.
When you start the running is based on how well you did on the other 4 events. The better you did, the sooner you start. By doing this, the one who finishes the run first, gets the Gold, 2nd the Silver, 3rd the Bronze.
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To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
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10-13-2004, 08:36 PM
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#8 | | Member
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: NC
Posts: 41
| Yes, the shooting i think is you have 40 seconds for each target, with a pistol. The running is a 3k about 2.2 miles and the swimming is only 200 meters i beleive. They have a pool of horses and you draw lots for each one and ride on that horse.
Here's a really good article from espn about ithttp://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=degree/merron/040423 | |
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10-13-2004, 10:27 PM
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#9 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 59
| Do the athletes have to do everything in one day or do they split them up? | |
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10-13-2004, 10:49 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Japan
Posts: 1,001
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! The soldier rides his horse into battle, is dismounted, fights with his gun, uses his ammo up, fights with his sword, runs away and swims over the river. | I thought it was soldier falls off his horse in river, swims to bank, uses sword to get kelp out of gun, runs to K-Mart to exchange gun.
Or maybe: guy is cooking kebabs when wild horse attacks, he sticks the horse in the neck with hot metal kebab-rod, runs into the house to get the gun to finish off horse, but slips into the pool on way back and must swim out of deep end.
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FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WON'T YOU BUY MY TACTICAL WHEEL!!!???? | |
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10-13-2004, 11:21 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: USA
Posts: 283
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Originally Posted by Unmarked Do the athletes have to do everything in one day or do they split them up? | As of fairly recently the event is completed in one day. | |
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10-14-2004, 12:00 AM
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#12 | | Armorer
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,406
| Yes, it is one VERY VERY Long Day. It started off as a 5 day event. I am not sure when it changed. But by '84 it was 4 days with shooting and running on the last day. The first 3 days were Riding, Fencing and Swimming.
Now it is one day, because of the Gods of the Olympics, they wanted it to take less time.
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Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr. DHCJr@juno.com
To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
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10-14-2004, 12:23 AM
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#13 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 59
| Five events in one day!That must be torture.....but I like it  | |
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10-14-2004, 04:30 AM
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#14 | | Member
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Australia-brisbane
Posts: 70
| one touch epee.... ep. id lose it under the pressure. | |
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10-14-2004, 11:19 AM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: London
Posts: 462
| If I remember rightly the epée, although one-touch, is a poule unique.
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I caught this morning morning’s minion, king-
dom of daylight’s dauphin, dapple-dawn-drawn Falcon, in his riding
Of the rolling level underneath him steady air, and striding
High there, how he rung upon the rein of a wimpling wing
In his ecstasy! then off, off forth on swing,
As a skate’s heel sweeps smooth on a bow-bend: the hurl and gliding
Rebuffed the big wind. My heart in hiding
Stirred for a bird,—the achieve of; the mastery of the thing! | |
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10-14-2004, 11:52 AM
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#16 | | Armorer
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,406
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Insipiens If I remember rightly the epée, although one-touch, is a poule unique. | There may be those who do not understand the term poule unique (one pool). What it means is a complete round robin. In practicle matters, you have 3-person teams, where you fence your team-mates first and then you fence each of the other teams. These are individual bouts, not the cummulative bouts that are used in team Fencing.
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Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr. DHCJr@juno.com
To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
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10-14-2004, 03:40 PM
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#17 | | Member
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: NC
Posts: 41
| is that the same format for senior world cups and they then elevate the top 8 for de's? | |
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10-14-2004, 04:32 PM
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#18 | | Armorer
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,406
| They have no de's. As was said it is one pool. A little explanation, I think is in order. They do not have a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. in each event. They gain points based on how well they did compared with an artificial number. For example for the running and swimming, it is how much faster or slower in seconds you did compared with a set amount. In running, the first 5 competitors might get 1200 points and at the next competition the 1st place gets 1,000 because they were slower. DE's would have no meaning.
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Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr. DHCJr@juno.com
To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
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10-14-2004, 05:57 PM
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#19 | | Armorer
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,406
| I should have given more information on points as it deals with the Fencing Event. Points are given how much better or worse you did with 1000 points given for 70%. How much more or less you get is based on the size of the tournament. Let us look at two competitions, both with 17 teams of 3 each.
At one tournament everyone is pretty much equal. Let us have 49, get exactly 25 wins and 25 losses. One wins 1 more and one wins 1 less. For 50 bouts, you get 16 points for each bout over or under 70% (35 wins). So the one with the most wins will get 856 points, most of the others will get 840 and the one with the fewest wins will get 824 points. Only 32 points between highest and the lowest.
But it could be different, suppose that there had been someone who couldn't be touched and one who couldn't even hit their own foot. The one with 50 wins would get 1560, almost twice what the other person got, while the one with no wins would get 440 points. Others would be somewhere in between.
As you can see 1st has no meaning. How many wins is all there is.
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Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr. DHCJr@juno.com
To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
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10-14-2004, 07:18 PM
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#20 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,616
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by fresfisher929 is that the same format for senior world cups and they then elevate the top 8 for de's? | Format for senior world cups is completely different.
For senior world cups take the top 16 seeds and promote them to the second day (seeds 1-16). Fence pools of 6 and 7 (preference for exclusively pools of 7). Take the top 16 fencers out of pools and promote them to the second day (seeds 17-32). Everyone else goes into a DE tableau, which is run until the round of 32. The final 32 people in the tableau are promoted to the second day (seeds 33-64).
The second day is a straight DE. This, of course, means that the top 16 people never fence 5-touch bouts. The DE is done with an interesting twist in that each pair of seeds (1&2, 3&4, etc.) have a random draw that can flip their seeds. That's mostly done just to avoid people running into the same match-ups tournament after tournament.
-B :)
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