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  1. #61
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    That AIP when the marcher's weight is on his front foot...

    Is it normal to extend during this time? How often does it happen?
    Last edited by drippingwet; 10-14-2004 at 07:11 AM.

  2. #62
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    if you are the marcher, yes it is normal to start your extension when your weight is on your front foot. it isn't the end of your advance, you extend, finish advance, lunge = your attack.

  3. #63
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    Fencer A is marching, extending when his weight is on his front foot.
    Fencer B lunges when A's weight is on front foot.

    Does fencer A have to complete the advance before lunging, or can A just lunge from the half-step?

  4. #64
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    What if you don't extend when weight is on front foot... If the advance isn't over then isn't this alright as long as your arm extends before your back foot completes the advance?

    And would you have to complete the advance before lunging or could you just lunge from the half step?

    And if you do have to complete the step before lunging, then I suppose a fleche when the marcher is on his front foot will deprive the marcher of enough time to lunge after finishing the step.
    Last edited by drippingwet; 10-15-2004 at 02:31 AM.

  5. #65
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    I extended and attempted to lunge last night when my weight was entirely on my front foot.

    I don't recommend that.

    Your center of balance is completely off kilter and I ended up tumbling forward on to the ground. At least I was fencing with one of the instructors who immediately said "You were leaning forward. I do that all the time, too. Most aggressive fencers do. But it's much better to keep your weight centered."

    My bruised knees agree.

    And drippingwet, I much prefer this style of your asking questions to the numbered style.

  6. #66
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    P.S. If your weight's on your front foot, can you just fleche from that into the defender if he attacks.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by drippingwet
    What if you don't extend when weight is on front foot... If the advance isn't over then isn't this alright as long as your arm extends before your back foot completes the advance?

    And would you have to complete the advance before lunging or could you just lunge from the half step?

    And if you do have to complete the step before lunging, then I suppose a fleche when the marcher is on his front foot will deprive the marcher of enough time to lunge after finishing the step.
    you pretty much answer your own questions, except #2: you can, but it'd be pretty impressive if you can make that correct decision in time; its a pretty small ammount of time to get out of the advance lunge mentality and take the half advance lunge. momentum alone will likely take you into the next advance.

  8. #68
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    So is it usual to finish the advance and then lunge when the defender attacks on your front foot? If not, what is?

    Article t.7:
    “The attack is the initial offensive action made by extending the arm and continuously threatening the opponent’s target, preceding the launching of the lunge or flèche “

    If you have to extend before the lunge, then how can you have RoW if you extend mid-lunge against a defender who attacks when your weight is on back foot (you've converted your advance into a lunge)?

    And maybe this'll be the last question on the matter (?????), but are there any good ways of getting the opponent to retreat when they're standing still, or advancing at the same time as you after the "allez".
    Last edited by drippingwet; 10-15-2004 at 02:37 PM.

  9. #69
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    yes, this is true and by textbook it should be an AIP. if you get this called against you if you're the marcher, the call is correct. but 9 times out of 10, this is very difficult to see from the director's standpoint. especially if the marcher uses small quick steps to attack. the majority of the time, correctly timing this move will likely result in your point. this is the major problem people complain about in marching, giving the attacker the 'benefit of the doubt'; i prefer to call it 'the benefit of human eyesight being variable and unreliable'

    in the matter of forcing retreats, no. if they don't want to move, they don't have to and won't. you can just try and make them.

  10. #70
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    So to finalise:

    1. Fencer A marches down fencer B. Fencer B lunges when fencer A's weight is on back foot. Fencer A converts his advance into a lunge while simultaneosly extending. Should be fencer B's hit because A didn't extend before lunging. But A usually gets the hit through benefit of doubt?

    So there isn't actually a rules basis for the march. It's just a misconception by inept referees or an inability to see the detail of the action by more experienced refs?

    Do you have to be extended before the lunge, or just extending at the start of the lunge?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by drippingwet
    So to finalise:

    1. Fencer A marches down fencer B. Fencer B lunges when fencer A's weight is on back foot. Fencer A converts his advance into a lunge while simultaneosly extending. Should be fencer B's hit because A didn't extend before lunging. But A usually gets the hit through benefit of doubt?

    So there isn't actually a rules basis for the march. It's just a misconception by inept referees or an inability to see the detail of the action by more experienced refs?

    Do you have to be extended before the lunge, or just extending at the start of the lunge?
    more or less. once again, its a grey issue thats being made black and white.

    and the referees are not inept. they're making calls to what they see. if you can't see the action you can't call it.

    extending right before the start of it. even just a little extending.

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