Fahrenheit 9/11

[Saber-Psycho]

Has anyone seen it?
Did you think it was an accurate portrayal of the current economical circumstances?

[telkanuru]

Yes.
Sort of.

[noodle]

saw it a while ago.
i don't really recall much in it that referred to the economic circumstances of today, though. you'd have to be more specific or somesuch.

[jeff]

Finally saw it. It has very little about economics in it, except that armed forced recruitment is mostly done in poorer neighborhoods.

[telkanuru]

Which was a no-brainer.

[Epictetus]

I wrote this soon after I first saw the film this summer, my thoughts on it haven't changed much since then, so, here we are:

(July 7)
Fahrenheit 911 finally made it to Binghamton, NY this weekend. As a fairly conservative, very old (average age) city, demand isn’t that high, so we had to wait to see it. Saw it last night, and have several comments on it.

First and foremost, the movie is a liberal propaganda piece. It makes no claim to impartiality, nor does it draw any punches. The President comes off looking, at best, incompetent, at worst, criminal. Watching it made me angrier than ever movie I have ever seen—angry that this war happened that my generation will have to face the legacy that is being made now. The film is a liberal battle cry, getting people into ranks for the election in November.

After the film, I began to reflect back on it, and I saw a much more complicated picture. I felt vindicated in my anger, it felt right to be so outraged, and it was gratifying to see that others felt the same way I did. Critics of the film have said that it demeans the President, and takes away from the presidency. Some of these same critics are the ones that claimed Clinton was a drug dealer and murderer. Which makes you pause—these critics probably felt fulfilled in their hatred of Clinton, much the same as I was feeling about Bush. George Lucas was on to something here. Anger is easy to trigger, and can be a great motivator and energy source. In the end, though, it is destructive, making it difficult for any compromise to be reached.

If liberals have one fault that people have pointed out for a very long time, it is that we are arrogant and fail to see the world as it really is, as a struggle between “good” and “evil”. In our defense, we take pride in looking between the lines, to see that we as a country, are not right simply because we are America, we are right because of what we represent. My grandfather once told me “Conservatives love America as children love their parents, unconditionally, never questioning it’s judgment. Liberals, on the other, love America as you would a spouse or loved one, accepting that everyone has their failings, and trying to help the other to overcome theirs.” We don’t love America any less, but it is a different kind of love.

This was one of the scary things about the film—it promoted a “They’re wrong, we’re right, and that’s all there is to it” mindset. Nothing is that simple, and while I still think I’m right, I like to think that I have a more nuanced position that saying that anything the President does is bad because he is who he is. This was brought up in another recent thread, it’s the “He’s an idiot” attack.

Now you might think, reading this, that I think that this is a bad movie, and that people shouldn’t see it. This is simply not the case. On the contrary, much of the raw footage in the film was incredible, and the interviews that Moore is able to do are amazing. In particular, he interviews a Flint Michigan mother, who lost her son in the war. The raw emotion in her face is heart breaking. In addition, interviews with wounded at Walter Reed show once again the sacrifices we are asking our soldiers for.

Moore is at his best as an interviewer, at his worst when he provides voice over to stock footage. I loved Bowling for Columbine, which was mostly interviews, and much less commentary.

The most basic problem with Fahrenheit 9/11 is that it is not going to change anybodies mind. If you were against the war when you walked in, you will remain so. If not, well, you most likely are not going to go see it, and if you do, it will probably do more to put you on the defensive, backing into where you were before, or pushing you further into the pro-war camp.

That being said, I would recommend that people go and see this movie. If nothing else, the footage and the comments from the soldiers make it worth it. This is a movie that will make you think, even though it is not a “thinking person’s movie”.

[Westley]

Round of Applause!

[Iwant2bafencer]

There is also a Fahrenhype 9/11. A spoof on the aformentioned show.

No I haven't seen it and pretty much dont intend to.

[telkanuru]

An interesting thing, to spoof political criticizim. Nice commentary above, though.

[civiltech]

It was OK for entertainment, but accurate I'm not so sure. a lot of "maybe" and "could he of been thinking" and " a common opinion was".....

A Canadian was recently in the news (CBC and CTV) for publishing a documentary on Michael Moore's 9/11. It was called Celsius 4.11 or something like that....basically rebutting Michael Moore's agenda, and trying to bring more light to many one sided reports. Havn't seen it, but think that would be worth some discussion as well.

I enjoy his movies, but like most partisan politicians he can really be a pain in the *** sometimes!!!

http://www.chargemoore.com



Elections Canada to charge Moore

by Justin Boudreau, Managing Editor, Canadafreepress.com

July 15, 2004

Elections Canada will lay charges against shockumentary filmmaker Michael Moore.

Officially, Elections Canada will neither confirm nor deny plans to lay formal charges against Moore. However, Canadafreepress.com has learned through sources that charges are imminent and expected by the end of next week.

The anti-Bush Moore, who often lets his mouth get ahead of him, may think he got away with the boner of the Canadian release of Fahrenheit 11 just days ahead of the June 28 federal election, but there is the little matter of election law infringement.

Moore’s pre-election advice lecturing Canadian voters not to vote Conservative quickly enraged a number of Conservative Party supporters who launched the website: www.chargeMoore.com in an effort to encourage Elections Canada to uphold its own law.

Moore’s tactics encompass what legal beagles believe is a direct violation of Canada electoral law. Under the "Non-Interference by Foreigners" clause (Part 11, Division 9, section 331) of the Canadian Elections Act:

No person who does not reside in Canada shall, during an election period, in any way induce electors to vote or refrain from voting for a particular candidate unless the person is

1. a Canadian citizen; or

2. a permanent resident within the meaning of subsection 2 (1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

As far as the letter of the law is concerned "I love Canada," as Moore has stated, does not count.

Penalties under the Canada Elections Act for such violations are a $2,000 fine--or a jail term of six months less a day. Kasra Nejatian, spokesperson for chargeMoore.com and his lawyers aren’t interested in the fines. "They (the fines) can be higher, but we aren’t interested in that. What we want is the jail time," Nejatian told Canadafreepress.com.

Once charges are laid, the small force behind chargeMoore.com is confident that they will be successful. "It (the Act) is fairly clear here. He has no wiggle room."

Nejatian, however is being realistic. While he doesn’t expect Pooh-Bah Moore to spend a single night in the slammer, he is anticipating that such a charge would all but bar the Michigan-native film maker from ever entering Canada again, a point he sees as a bonus as bright as any star.

Encouraged by the amount of public support his online petition has found, Nejatian says he’s hoping that even more Canadians will log on at www.chargeMoore .com to sign up.

"There’s no excuse for a foreign socialist millionaire to show up in our country and try to spread his propaganda," he said.

justin boudreau is managing editor at Canada Free Press.com>. He can be reached at cfp@canadafreepress.com.