Opera/Ballet/Play Fans?

[Agent_V]

Originally Posted by Epictetus

Not entirely true. Mozart, more than any other composer, is known for his unbelieveable ability to follow the "rules" of music and create something amazing out of them. There is an anecdote, I don't know if it's true or not, that when he was very young, Mozart's father took him to a piano concert. Mozart was so impressed with the work, that when he returned home, he copied it down verbatim onto sheet music, having only heard it once. However, he corrected all the "mistakes" of the original composer, to make it work better.

<snip>

Sibelious Finlandia: Perhaps because it was once made into what I would consider the most beautiful hymn ever written (bring me to tears every time), but this has to be at the top of any list. The words that were eventually put to the closing hymn are the perfect expression of how I feel about the world.
"This is My Song" Hymn
Gotta love being Unitarian.

Looking back on the list, I just noticed that all the music I listed is religious in some way. Why is it that often the most beautiful music so often comes from spiritual sources?

I think you have it backwards here. Back in Mozart's day there were little if any formal rules of composition, in fact, beginning and intermediate music theory as we know it today was in part developed from studying primarily what Mozart (and others) did. In that anecdote, he didn't "know" the rules of composition better than the composer of that concerto, it's just that his musical intuition conflicted with parts of the piece he had just heard, so he corrected them to fit his ideals. Mozart today is known as a better composer than the other guy because we like his musical ideas and developments much better than the other guy's, not because there is some grand scheme of musical theory that mozart knew better.

about finlandia: you do realize, of course, that the ending of Finlandia is this upsurge of pained joy of throwing off the gauntlet of brutal soviet oppression, not just some happy and gay (in the old sense) ending. I see beauty in it, but it is a rather painful and dark beauty.
I'd be interested to know exactly what the hymn is about...

There is a lot of very beautiful music composed by spiritual composers like Bach, etc..., but that is equally true of irreligeous composers, like those of the soviet period (prokofiev, shostakovich...)

Alexander

[telkanuru]

For the people who listen to him, what do you all think of Shostakovich re: the controversy as to if his later works were communist cavings after recieving direct criticizm from Stalin or sarcastically overdone as means to revolt. I think the latter.

[Stylothek]

I'm at the Bonn Opera frequently and enjoy Operas a lot.
My favorites are:
-Satyagraha
-Saul

I visit many plays too, but I just can't make up my mind on my favorite one....

[Epictetus]

Originally Posted by Agent_V

about finlandia: you do realize, of course, that the ending of Finlandia is this upsurge of pained joy of throwing off the gauntlet of brutal soviet oppression, not just some happy and gay (in the old sense) ending. I see beauty in it, but it is a rather painful and dark beauty.
I'd be interested to know exactly what the hymn is about...

Not exactly... Finlandia was written in 1899, and was originally the final movement of a larger composition detailing the history of Finland. It later became a symbol of Finnish nationalism, and in 1939, the poet V.A. Koskenniemi put words to it that are the best known now.

Around the same time, Oliver Stone wrote a set of lyrics to the hymn that were put into the Methodist hymnal. The poem "This is My Song" first appeard in 1934, although I do not know when it was connected with Finalndia. Lyrics and a recording of the hymn can be found Here , although it should be noted that "My country 'tis of thee" is not part of the original song.

The hymn was picked up by the Unitarian Church around the time they joined with the Universalists, I believe in the mid 60's. It hase been a staple in UU services since then.

[Agent_V]

Originally Posted by Epictetus

Not exactly... Finlandia was written in 1899, and was originally the final movement of a larger composition detailing the history of Finland. It later became a symbol of Finnish nationalism, and in 1939, the poet V.A. Koskenniemi put words to it that are the best known now.
...

whoops, pardon my goof; I should have said Czarist russia, not soviet, I had some dates mixed up. However, my comment and interpretation still stands, as it was composed as a strongly nationalistic song at a time that under the domination of it's neighbors russia and sweden, and helped to galvinize the drive for independence.

I find that the hymn kinda pales in comparison to the original orchestral work (at least the one on the website that you mentioned), but that's really a question of musical taste, as I appreciate the abilities of symphony much more than that of the unaccompianied voice.

but still, that's cool that the unitarians have picked up that hymn, I might not be such a huge fan of lyrics, but the music underlying it is just awesome.

enjoy,
Alexander

[Epictetus]

I guess my attraction to the hymn is my early association with it.

My great Uncle ( a Methodist Minister) was a huge fan of the hymn, and it was sung at his funeral, so it's always had some pretty heavy emotional weight behind it. Had I not heard it so early, I probably would not have been such a big fan.

But yeah...

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Agent_V

the word "peasant" springs instantly to mind...

you show your ignorance pretty damn well.

In this case, ignorance is bliss, for I am never so happy as when I can avoid having to have my ears tormented by the fingernails-on-chalkboard sounds of the likes of Schoenberg or Panufnik. Or even Stravinsky.

None of the composers I mentioned thought anything of abstruse rules of composition, they were considered (quite rightly) to be hindrinces to musical expression.

None of which alters the fact that their so-called "music" is in fact anti-music and painful to the hearing...

In fact, all the well-known composers today broke the musical rules of their times. People think of brahms and beethoven as great romantic composers, yet in some of their most beautiful chord progressions one can recognize elements of dissonence making an appearance.

Not so you'd notice.

However, most composition is done through the musical intuition of the composer: if it sounds good, it is good.

By the same token, if it sounds bad, it is bad---and yet it will get hailed as a masterwork of genius and played and performed ad nauseam. Because it has been ordained that we the listeners must be educated to the glories of random concatenations of noise. It's for our own good, really.

But I understand why musicians love to play the stuff: no one can tell when they mistakenly play a sour note.

A great example of this is exemplified with Shoenberg developing his 12-tone system. Listen to Verklärte Nacht,

Not on your life! Once is quite sufficient.

There is so much truly great music out there. If one played nothing but Mozart, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, it'd take months to exhaust his canon. And he wasn't even the most prolific of the great composers. That being the case, why pain my sensibilities with stuff that sets my teeth on edge? I can fill the days with music that is actually pleasant to hear.

I am not particularly eager to acquire the taste for Rocky Mountain oysters or sheep's brains, either.

to dismiss them as such is a wonderful exercise in close-mindedness.

I'm willing to open my mind, just as long as I don't have to open my ears.

"Pleasure is by no means an infallible critical guide, but it is the least
fallible."- W.H. Auden

[Epictetus]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

But I understand why musicians love to play the stuff: no one can tell when they mistakenly play a sour note.

Not this musician...

Atonal music with no set beat? Hardest, most frustrating music out there. *twitch*

Yes, bad memories...

Suffice to say that I can enjoy hearing some things without having to play them.

[sabreur]

I'm partial to almost all orchestral music, including Glass. Certainly including Stravinsky.

Shakespeare in modern dress can be either wonderful or awful. Depends on the director and the actors.

I love ballet.

I hate opera.

MR