Analysing the opponent

[drippingwet]

Golubitsky says one of the things that sets him apart is the ability to analyse the opponent in a really short time. How do you analyse before the bout and during the bout? And how do you do it in a short time? How do you use what you’ve learned?

I know I could probably answer these questions myself, but it would be with a novice’s mind. I was wondering how these questions would be answered by high level fencers.

[Torg]

i'm relatively new (i've been fencing for a year) but i watch for certain repeated habits. there are people that watch for an opening, either unintentional or as bait, then go right for it. there are people who just mess with distance a lot. i try to look at their en garde stance, how much they move with little or no blade contact, how fast they are, and how wild their gestures. from that, i can pretty much get a sense of how they fence. granted, you can't always beat them based on knowing how they fence (i've had experiences both ways), but it clues you in to have some sort of grasp on your opponent.

[Robert (2)]

Originally Posted by drippingwet

I know I could probably answer these questions myself, but it would be with a novice’s mind. I was wondering how these questions would be answered by high level fencers.

I rarely get a chance to do it (you just don't want to between your bouts) but I have a recording system. I watch one of the two fencers on the piste. Every-time they score a hit I write down whether it was an attack or riposte and which line they finished in (4, 6, 8, 7). This keeps it very simple and it gives me a bit of useful info about where the actions are finishing (there is often a pattern).

Robert

[jBirch]

It's a multifold process that I like to think of as escalating commitment.

First, you need to assess how they feel about distance. A few ins and outs will solve that. Next, you need to assess how they feel about attacks. Feint, weak attack, very strong sudden attack off the line, etc...Then about repeated actions on your side. Show them target and do the same disengage. Show them the same parry, and then switch it up. This is your basic intel.

The in and out will let you learn where their danger zone is and how they react to it, most fencers will respond with something (a retreat, a line, an attack, something). You use that knowledge to try a more committed attack or combination. If you see them freeze their brain, then you've got them. If you see them reflexively do something, then you've got them.

Beats on the blade cause a reaction. Some fencers beat back, some press, some retreat, some advance and attack. Sometimes you can aggrevate an opponent with beats until they attack. Same with press. Same with feints.

The idea is to be able to predict with near 100% accuracy what the opponent is going to do in response to a stimulus. Sometimes this is a simple response (attack, retreat, etc...) sometimes it's complicated (c6 disengage coupe to shoulder). The idea is to train your opponent to cues and then get them to perform an action on cue, which you will then use to your advantage. Sometimes this is by showing a "weakness", other times are by exploiting a weakness in them. Other ways are to understand a coaching system and show the same openings that the coach will do. Take advantage of their predictable response. Get into their head and predict their next response based off of the last point. If you won the last point on a direct attack, they are going to be sensitive to direct attacks. So try one and use the response to goad them into an action you can take advantage of.

Start simple, get more complicated until you find a response, exploit it. Begin again, feeding in the information you gather along the way.

This is the process. Hope it helps.

[gamerdork]

You all have some great tips. Thanks, I think I will have to use them. And to add my 2 cents, learning how to read your opponent takes practice, like learning to fence, so don't be worried if you can't do it right away. I am still working on how to read my opponents well.

[Craig]

Your scouting of your opponent should begin well before you actually get on the piste to fence them. Any good warrior knows that good intelligence collected before the battle will sway the outcome of the battle. (Paraphrasing Sun Tzu there...)

I tend to watch potential opponents and scout out a few things about them. In no particular order:

• How they fence within the different "zones" of the strip
• Predominant attack
• Predominant defense
• Use of the line - only as stalling tactic or attempt to get points from it.
• Counterattacks - when used, how often, what situation
• What parry is thrown out when they are surprised?
• What is their "money" touch? (When they *need* the point, what do they go for?)

[deadly lefty]

Originally Posted by Craig

Your scouting of your opponent should begin well before you actually get on the piste to fence them. Any good warrior knows that good intelligence collected before the battle will sway the outcome of the battle. (Paraphrasing Sun Tzu there...)

I usually go to my oppenents house a few weeks before the tournement and watch him sleep

but seriously I mostly watch my opponents for small habbits or motions. if an opponent always lowers his arm right before an attack I can prepare for an attack, this may sound minimal but you'd be suprised at what some fencers do before an attack

[Victor]

My high school band director, in trying to teach us how to transcribe music we heard, said we needed to hear a passage only twice to understand it and put it to paper. (He had very high standards for us kids. He was a total jerk, too.) The first time we listened, we should be noting cadence and rhythm -- note and rest lengths. On the second, we should be listening for the notes' range, up and down the scale. The other stuff, like crescendos and time changes, could be added from memory later.

Or so he would have us believe.

Regardless of the veracity of his claims, I find myself applying similar observational steps to fencers: First, I'll focus on their footwork, looking for general trends, repetition patterns, and cues connected to attacks and retreats. Then I look at the bladework itself -- which attacks he prefers, whether he parries in a clockwise or counter-clockwise circle, if he always counters into a beat prep, etc. Finally, I try to get a feel for his overall "style" or "attitude" (aspects which are fairly difficult to describe to myself, much less on a public message board) -- for example, does he prefer to wait, or is he overly aggressive?

It's a structured appraisal that seems to work for me.

[JackSparrow]

Originally Posted by jBirch

If you see them freeze their brain, then you've got them. If you see them reflexively do something, then you've got them.

jBirch totally hit the nail on the head there. Every fencer has a natural parry that they will instinctively take if they don't have time to think about their reaction. The problem is that the more experienced a fencer is, the more challenging it will be to draw it out of them.

Against a novice fencer it's a fairly straight forward. Try wrong footing them and then hammer in a direct attack. Once you've seen their natural instictive action, commit it to memory and work out how to correctly decieve it. Once you've got that in the bag then you will always be ready and prepared for their last ditch attempt at a parry. In effect you know what their going to do before they know themselves. Don't you just love being in control?