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edew · 06-27-2002, 04:46 PM

Kendall-Jackson, the winery, is hosting its first-annual Kendall-Jackson International Fencing Tournament and Dinner. The Tournament consists of five events, with the premiere event being the Elite event, open to all A and B fencers (or their equivalents from other nations). Many top fencers from France, who will be in the area (Sonoma, CA) for a French-American Fencing Camp, will compete among some of the top US foilists, including Sean McClain, Alex Wood, Tim Chang, your's truly (if I'm healthy enough for the challenge), Dmitri Kirk-Gordon, silver medalist at the 2002 Elite Nationals, and many others.

Other events include a men's open, women's open, Youth-12 mixed foil events, and a mixed sabre event.

Included in the event is the dinner during which the finals will be showcased. The dinner will feature a blend of California and Gascogne Cuisine emphasizing the wine and food of Sonoma County with celebrity chefs (I'm copying it straight out of the invitation I got) Randly Lewis and Philippe Gauffre.

Dinner (and hob-nobbing with very well-off, rich folks) is $175.

The Fencing competition is $25/event.

I'm posting this here in the hopes that some fencers in the Bay Area who read this forum might be interested in attending either the competition or the dinner (or both). As chair of the NorCal division, I would certainly urge all who can attend to do so. It will greatly help raise the prestige of fencing among the uber-rich, which in turn, can result in their sponsorship. Who knows, maybe we can have K-J sponsor a World Cup men's foil event in the Bay Area.

The Bay Area has one of the highest concentration of top men's foilists in the nation (four of the top-8 at this year's Div I National, men's foil event, are from the Bay Area; others include Mark Mulholland, Steve Gerberman, Felix and Florian Rechling, Kevin Urbain, Gerald Cheng) and is in position to lead towards a World Cup event in the area.

Help support this possibility by attending the competition and or dinner. I personally will be attending the dinner, and maybe the competition.

swordsen · 06-27-2002, 05:34 PM

Sound fun. If I were an uber fencer I'd go play.
but I'm not and I'm on the wrong side of the country.
Eric, you may want to go back and put the date of this event in your message.

edew · 06-27-2002, 06:09 PM

Fencing camp is July 15-20, the competition and dinner is July 20. Be there or be square.

three_hundred_fifty_five · 06-27-2002, 08:16 PM

$175 for a dinner?

I would rather spend that on an NFL game ticket.

edew · 06-28-2002, 12:07 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by three_hundred_fifty_five:
$175 for a dinner?

I would rather spend that on an NFL game ticket.<hr /></blockquote>The Bay Area is a rich (read: expensive) area. It's not uncommon for regular folks to dole out $25 for lunch, $60-75/person for a regular dinner. The $175 gets you a special meal, lots of wine, hobnobbing with a lot of rich folks (people like Joe Montana, John Lassiter, those kind of folks), and all proceeds goes to fund the Sonoma Academy private school's scholarship program for needy not-uber-rich kids.

Those same kids will take up fencing as a sport because it's cool, it's elite, and they have a better chance to make it to top schools like Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Penn, Case-Western...

So the cost is primarily to help raise funds for the Sonoma Academy scholarship fund.

Another website to check is:
<a href="http://www.kj.com/" target="_blank">Kendall-Jackson Winery</a>
and click through to the events page to read more about it.

***Craig*** · 06-28-2002, 08:01 AM

This looks like a cool tournament! That plus Duel in the Desert make the west coast the place for quality fencing events.

Craig

edew · 06-28-2002, 04:08 PM

Not to mention the recently held Golden Gate Games with slo-mo replays on a jumbotron.

We're making things happen out here, hear?

Oh, BTW, the USFA's recent press release about the upcoming Summer Nationals indicate that California has the largest contingent with 222 with New Jersey coming in second. That should refute the bogus claim by many that tournaments should be held in the east coast because there are lots of fencers in New Jersey (and Boston, and NYC, and so on). The fact is, despite a sizable number of people from California NOT going (me, for example), California is still bringing in the largest contingent among all the fifty states.

That's why we should be having more events in the west. Certainly we should be having more youth events in the west, given that it's a warmer clime, easier to get to, and the largest group of youth fencers are from California and nearby states.

Peach · 06-28-2002, 04:13 PM

"Easier to get to" is a very relative term, Eric. There are still lots of fencers on the East Coast, and in my view the events should be *balanced*--not weighted in favor of one coast or the other, or even in favor of coasts at all. The idea is to develop fencing across the country, not necessarily just to bring it where it already is. We tend to think of convenience for the majority, rather than development. I'm all for regional tournaments in California and New Jersey (especially New Jersey, to which I can drive <g&gt

but I'm hoping the national tournaments continue to be distributed.

edew · 06-28-2002, 04:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Peach:
"Easier to get to" is a very relative term, Eric. There are still lots of fencers on the East Coast, and in my view the events should be *balanced*--not weighted in favor of one coast or the other, or even in favor of coasts at all. The idea is to develop fencing across the country, not necessarily just to bring it where it already is. We tend to think of convenience for the majority, rather than development. I'm all for regional tournaments in California and New Jersey (especially New Jersey, to which I can drive <g&gt

but I'm hoping the national tournaments continue to be distributed.<hr /></blockquote>I would wish that national tournaments be equally distributed, but that really hasn't been the case, as most events are still east of Chicago.

Why, for gawd's sakes is the January Youth NAC in Saratoga Springs, NY? From any standpoint, it's plain ridiculous. Some people in the Bay Area offered to bring it out to San Francisco. USFA didn't even want to hear the offer.

It was only the 2000-2001 season that was favorable to the west with Palm Springs, Reno, and Sacramento for three major events. This past season, we had four events in the midwest, which is neither here nor there.

I can't really think of any good (for the membership, that is) reason to hold tournaments in South Bend IN or Louisville KY. Either coasts have way more fencers, and the west coast is more likely to bring out the fencers, so for memberships' sake, excising those midwest-hard-to-get-to locations should be the first step.

Developing fencing across the country is certainly an admirable goal, but should not come under the aegis of the NACs. NACs will never the instrument to help develop fencing. Local fencing programs will help develop fencing.

edew · 06-28-2002, 04:49 PM

I don't want to disparage other people's regions. I think Saratoga Springs is a wonderful area. My visit to the city was pleasant (though cold). Louisville was also an, urm, uh, delightful city. Probably so is Harvey IL. The Greenville Fencing's websites show a very pretty, serene region. One of our coaches here at Stanford, George Pogossov, lived in that area and has nothing but good words to say of the area.

So, please don't take my comments for disparagement of others' regions. Still, I would prefer to go to a warm climate for a January event. I would prefer to go to a cool climate for a July event. I would prefer to go to an exciting city for any event. Washington DC? Tampa Bay? New York City? At least, if I get knocked out early, I can enjoy the rest of the day and evening with varied activities.

Basically, I think USFA should rethink where they should hold tournaments based on what would be a better draw. Personally, if USFA privatized the holding of tournaments to one or several established organizers who would be willing to run a whole year's worth (do all the trucking, setting up, tearing down, etc.), I'm sure the organizers would look for ways to increase the number of competitors.

Puppet Master · 06-29-2002, 02:09 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by edew:

Oh, BTW, the USFA's recent press release about the upcoming Summer Nationals indicate that California has the largest contingent with 222 with New Jersey coming in second. That should refute the bogus claim by many that tournaments should be held in the east coast because there are lots of fencers in New Jersey (and Boston, and NYC, and so on). The fact is, despite a sizable number of people from California NOT going (me, for example), California is still bringing in the largest contingent among all the fifty states.
.<hr /></blockquote>But California is the largest? 2nd largest state of the lower 48. New Jersey is how big?, why not compare with a similar area in the east? And both div 2/3 nacs were held out west this year, that imo should never happen, hence my argument for 3. The Nacs should be spread out proportionately.

Also many of us non- big city ppl would hate to have to go to a Nac in New York. We'd probably get lost in it and never even make it to the tourny. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Now Orlando might be nice. I agree with you on saratoga springs in winter. My point is we don't all have the same likes and dislikes.

veeco · 06-29-2002, 03:15 PM

I think I agree with edew there.

I'd even take it a little more further.

California would be the 6th most powerful nation economically if it was not a part of the states.

We have the best technology, the best fencers, the best wine, and the best cheese.

We should separate ourselves from the rest of the US, and we would still be strong. Why care about all of the other states, which are just slowing us down?

Let's take our matters in our own hands and (re)create the Republic of California ;-).

135711 · 06-29-2002, 04:43 PM

eric, i'd really like to be there and fence you, you challenger you, hey la, i was walking on the fine streets of hawaii, and a little cardinal popped by, i really love cardinals, i got one to eat pizza right out of my hand. so how was your fancy dinner. i was just planning a menu for a fabulose italian meal, from the wine to the dessert. i'd rather be fencing, i have to move back to the mainland though, maybe around january, things are very rocky right now, my contract was not resigned, it's the pits of hell for me brother, but i mend fast, i expect to be back in form in about 3 months.

Eileen · 06-30-2002, 02:01 AM

I think a major factor that is probably weighing in for picking a venue is the cost involved. It will always be cheaper to hold it in places that are less convenient for all and coincidentally, cheaper to rent the actual tournament venues, hotel rooms, etc. Also scheduling of these venues is probably easier to get particularly for the Summer nationals when many other organizations will be looking to book venues for their own events.

However, from a participant stand point I would definitely love to see more major events held on the West Coast.

I can't afford to travel to Nationals this year so good luck to all who are going!

swordsen · 07-01-2002, 04:21 PM

East coast venue didn't seem to hurt the west coast attendence at the nationals this year. there were more than enough of them to go around.
I personally am infavor of moving them around the country to a different region each year. Makes it possible for those who can't afford to travel across the country due to lack of money or time to go every now and then, and it enables us to visit new places each year.

edew · 07-01-2002, 05:32 PM

The (albeit not very important) point I was trying to make is that the claim had been to run events in the East Coast because there are thousands more fencers in the east coast. This is a fact (look at the USFA membership stats and you can see the large number of USFA members in New Jersey and New England divisions).

However, if east coasters aren't going to go to national events in proportion to their numbers, then why not put the events in the west coast, where west coasters WOULD go to national events in proportion to their numbers.

In other words, why not put on an event at places where people are likely to attend, not at places where there are a lot of people.

Arturo · 07-02-2002, 07:53 PM

edew · 07-21-2002, 01:35 PM

The Kendall-Jackson fencing tournament and dinner came off with nary a hitch. The earlier round competition as poorly run. It was just plain frenetic, as I played bout committee, referee, and fencer all at the same time. No one wanted to referee and I was the one left to referee the semi-final bouts as well as plenty other bouts. Next year (and there will definitely be a next year), we will have a complete suite of assigned referees and bout committee people. And fewer events, hopefully.

The dinner was spectacular with a wonderful hors d'oeurves with wines prior to the dining experience. The foie gras was great, the avocado and crayfish mousse was the most amazing tasting experience. I met a former college fencing friend there, one I hadn't seen for about 18 years. Surprise, surprise.

My tablemates were all great conversationalists and made the dinner most enjoyable. The artichoke tear with osetra caviar appetizer was exquisite. The lamb rolls were tasty.

Oh, the fencing. Losing in the semi-final bouts were Eli Miloslavsky from San Francisco and Fabian Jaubertou of France. Winners in the semi-final bouts were Cedric Anen (Luxembourg by way of Los Angeles) and Dmitri Kirk-Gordon. In the first bout for the bronze, Miloslavsky and Jaubertou traded touches to about 10-10 when Eli took on a strong lead of 14-11. Eli eventually won 15-13.

In the gold medal bout, Anen was clearly the dominant fencer controlling the bout to win 15-7 or so.

The bouting could have benefitted with some more emotion from the fencers. They were just too "sedated" maybe some money would make the bouting more interesting. The prizes were not big cash prizes (not this year, anyway), but large (as in HUGE) bottles of wine from K-J. The wine were all very good, by they way.

Personally, I finished, probably, eighth, defeating Clinton Kershaw 15-13 in the round of 16 and then losing to Kirk-Gordon in the round of 8. The tendonitis is taking its toll.

Alex Wood, who also competed was treated to the European refereeing bias. In a big way. Alex was fencing a so-so Italian fencer (good, hardly great), and couldn't get a touch as long as the italian's light went on. If Alex made a parry riposte, it would be called "beat attack". If Alex made a beat attack, it would be called a parry riposte. The italian's counter-attacks were point in lines, Alex's point in lines were counter-attacks. At least Alex didn't get the missing 12th point. (Several years ago, while fencing in a predecessor to this event, I fought against a french fencer with a french referee. The referee neglected to use a scoresheet and kept the score by hand. I was ahead all the time, and at 13-11 in my favor, the next score for my opponent turned into 13-all. In the next bout against another french guy, he was constantly ahead because of the "treatment" [simultaneous attacks were called attack/counter-attack, etc.] and the twelveth touch was suddenly the thirteenth. Hmmm...)

Anyway, hopefully with next year's assigned referees, we can avoid such obvioulsy fraudulent behavior by the referees.

epeemike81 · 07-22-2002, 05:42 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by edew:
The (albeit not very important) point I was trying to make is that the claim had been to run events in the East Coast because there are thousands more fencers in the east coast. This is a fact (look at the USFA membership stats and you can see the large number of USFA members in New Jersey and New England divisions).

However, if east coasters aren't going to go to national events in proportion to their numbers, then why not put the events in the west coast, where west coasters WOULD go to national events in proportion to their numbers.

In other words, why not put on an event at places where people are likely to attend, not at places where there are a lot of people.<hr /></blockquote>You don't know that East Coasters aren't going in proportion. As you pointed out, the large fencing area is NE and NY. try putting nationals up in NE... you will get record numbers. Yes, new englanders can drive to SC, but most don't. most fly. It can be almost as expensive to fly to SC as CA due to the fact that flights to Greenville are more rare. thus, to put it in SC will not significantly change NE attendance. putting it closer to NE, though, would.

-m

JEC · 07-22-2002, 07:07 AM

Eric (Edew)
Where are the results posted of the KJ competition? Can you send me or post here the link?
Thanks,
Jose (JEC)