Fleche

[Kismet]

Ok. I have issues with a fleche. I always just end up ploughing myself into my opponents blade, which desn't really help me that much and usually leaves me with quite a bruise. So, my question is, how the heck can I fleche and actually make it successful? I'm an epeeist, for anyone that cares to know.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[achilleus]

Point first
Good preparation
Good timing
Good execution
Confidence - extremely important

And lastly, practice. Practice, practice practice.

[CvilleFencer]

Agreement with what Achilleus has said. Also, chance are you are doing one of two things:
Your distance is off, meaning either you are to close or to far out.
You are doing a big preperation or telegraghing your fleche.

A fleche should be an explosive, surprising movement. A lot of newer fencers tense up or otherwise give away what they are going to do. It should look no differant than your regular advance untill you are already fleching.

Also, I try to time my fleche while my opponent is doing something else, like has a foot in the air or is searching for my blade. I like to hit before or just as my back foot hits the ground.

It is really hard to give advice without having seen you fence. I would suggest talking to a coach or more advanced fencer at you club and work on it with them. Also some discussion with your coach about distance and the timing of your attacks would probably help a great deal.

[noodle]

just as with anything in epee, you can't just fleche and expect it to hit and you not get hit also. you need to deal with their blade for optimal results. beat/bind/etc, fleche

[Kismet]

Thanks for the advice...I'll definitely try to use some of it next time I try the fleche.

[mrbiggs]

Hmm, a small point not yet mentioned.

I try to plan out my fleches in épée, especially in pool bouts. I emaxine my opponent's fencing style for signs of a weak spot. Then I just wait until something inside me says "GO", and then I GO. Also, as already implied, in épée, more often then not, once you start a fleche, you should not stop until someone has hit or the director has called halt. Stopping halfway through a fleche is often a very easy touch for the other side.

[Army Fencer]

Achilles has some good points. Let me expound on two of them.

Good preparation
--I will prepare by extending my arm slowly a few times, without threatening any target area. When I launch my flesche, I extend my arm slowly. The victim is much less aware of my attack and I like it that way.

Good timing
--Good timing and good distance go hand in hand. I will flesche when either I have or my opponent has just closed distance. We're closer and my victim has less of an opportunity to react.

With good preparation and good timing, bladework is almost completely unnecessary.

[FriendlyMonkey]

Stupid french question.


"Flesh" or "Fleh-shay" ?

Heard people at my club say it both ways!

-Marc

[Gav]

I agree with everything that people above have said about getting a fleche right. You should be aiming to hit before your rear foot lands. If you are taking one or two steps before contact you are far too far out. Similarly, if you find that you start and all of a sudden you have been hit then you are too close.

People who I fleche fall into 2 main categories:

Poor or slow bladework
Competent bladework but poor footwork.

The first one tend fall for a direct fleche. When they move their blade to the right place it's time to go. However you have to remember to block out. It's Epee they can still hit if they get their arm straight.

The second bunch are trickier. They have a good hand speed and know how to parry. Their footwork is poor so a 1-2 or some kind of prise de fer is necessary. Here you are aiming to hit them on dead time while they are reacting.

Against people who are good it's harder to quantify. Generally YOU have to either: "make the hit" [second intention and prise de fer's done properly] or rely on THEIR mistake. Ability to land comes from experience.

As a lefty I can do a nifty continuation and hit with a flick to buttock.

[Gav]

Stupid french question.


"Flesh" or "Fleh-shay" ?

Heard people at my club say it both ways!

-Marc

"Flesh"

Although in Scotland we bastardise it and say "Fleesh"

[RETLAG]

Stupid french question.


"Flesh" or "Fleh-shay" ?

Heard people at my club say it both ways!

-Marc

The word fleche is pronounced "flesh". If it were spelled fleche' (actually the accent mark is a little more angled) it would be pronounced "fleshay". Fleche means arrow. Fleche' would mean arrowed, wich doesn't make alot of sense.

It's the same deal with touche (toosh), which means touch and touche' (tooshay), which means touched.

[MyraTrue]

Perhaps I'm misreading what was said, but if you have problems of fleching and being hit (ie, you pretty much are running yourself onto their blade) it may simply be a matter of needing to remove their blade.

And of course, I say "simply," but I have a very hard time doing just this. Just "running" at someone who's blade is out pretty much says you'll get hit. A beat, bind, take, etc will remove their blade from your path, and if you don't hit them, you keep on going until you're past. Hey, at least they didn't hit you, right?

I have difficulties using the fleche well in my fencing. But one thing I have learned that I thought quite neat was that a good fleche doesn't always have to be a fast one. When someone moves very quickly, we typically react "very quickly"- a startle response. But if you take a short lunge, nice and slow, and then slooowly and smoothly begin a fleche, it doesn't invoke the startle reaction. And amazingly, I've had more success with that than a "fast fleche".

I hope something in there helps. But the best of luck.

[Rolls]

Well, two problems I see in beginners.

1) A lot of beginners have a tendency to pull their arm back as they fleche. Obviously, this is bad. You're moving forward but your weapon kinda just stands still.

2) You want to run past your opponent not into them. You have to move a little bit to the side.

It helps to practice against a chair or something that you can run past.

Rolls.

[broncofencer]

Jsut one thing I didn't see mentioned. A flesche should land BEFORE your back leg lands on the strip. a lot of new fencers tend to do more of a run with extension as a flesche which is easy to counter attack.

[cowpaste]

I hate it when people go "sal-leh" for "salle." Ugh.

[Torg]

The word fleche is pronounced "flesh". If it were spelled fleche' (actually the accent mark is a little more angled) it would be pronounced "fleshay". Fleche means arrow. Fleche' would mean arrowed, wich doesn't make alot of sense.

It's the same deal with touche (toosh), which means touch and touche' (tooshay), which means touched.

i dunno about you, but for all you homestarrunner fans out there, arrowed! makes a whole lot of sense, along with sworded!, msg'd!, and 404'd!

[FencingWench]

If you want to see good fleching, try to find tape of a Michael Marx student, especially his women epeeists. They excel at this. Now granted, you may not want to take up all the bouncing and waiting that they tend towards as well, but their fleches truly are explosive and accurate.

And just a quick exercise you may or may not have tried. As many people have noted, fleching is an all out move. It will almost never benefit you to pull back in the middle of one. To get the feel of just how all out you ought to be going in a fleche, stand in en guarde with your eyes closed. Then have a partner pull your weapon hand straight out really hard. This will force you to fleche correctly. Your arm will move first, your body will follow, and you will not have time to catch yourself from falling until you've completed the fleche.

[mrbiggs]

Then have a partner pull your weapon hand straight out really hard. This will force you to fleche correctly.

Or it will cause you to fall down.

No, I'm just kidding, that really does help.

I've also heard it pronounced "flaysh", in addition to "flesh" and "fleshay"

Retlag, ALT + 130 = é

"toosh" is correct, but the problem is that you then have the ability to call bad fencers "touche bags", which tends to be unappreciated.

[ReverseLunge]

Ok. I have issues with a fleche. I always just end up ploughing myself into my opponents blade, which desn't really help me that much and usually leaves me with quite a bruise. So, my question is, how the heck can I fleche and actually make it successful? I'm an epeeist, for anyone that cares to know.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

I think it's probably because you are fleching from too far away and giving your opponent too much time to prepare or you are leaning too far forward when you prepare to fleche and telepathing your fleche.

1.Try binding your opponent's blade as you fleche.

2. Try fleching after a lunge that either fell a bit short or didn't register a light.

3. Only fleche if you are in distance and you opponents blade is pointing downwards.