What does everyone pay in dues?

[ZenEpeeist]

That is a good deal...

We are just starting out as a new club and we're charging $10 a month for everybody to fence and we meet about 2 days (6 hours) a week. We pay $50 a month in rent for a decent facility that can hold about 6 strips. Also, we got insurance from the usfa which cost about $10 a month and had to spend about $10 a month in web hosting. It's a really small setup, but hey, I'm not looking to make a killing...just break even.

The catch is that we're starting out, so we haven't earned enough for scoring equipment and other fencing gear. That's part of the future; hence the $10 a month.

After our beginner's class ($30 for a 6 week course), we'll hopefully be out of the red and able to buy some gear.

Running the club isn't my full time job, so I don't have to charge lots to pay my bills...

[random fencer p]

Originally Posted by duel mom

no,no mifencer not unhappy. Just frustrated with the difficulty of comparing club pricing. The thread is rather unhelpful because as scarlet woman said clubs run the gamut with facility and coach quality. Very difficult to quantify but I wish I had a better feel for the costs. Achieving that may be impossible because of the nature of the differences.

The question is different if it's you versus finding fencing for your kids. If you find a private club that charges $50 per month but the place is dirty and the jackets and gloves need to be washed versus a place where you might pay $75-$100 per month but the place is clean and the equipment is washed regularly...

Also, do you, or does your child, have higher level asperations, ie national champion or olympic, then you find yourself paying much more per month for the training needed to make that happen.

You may be willing to put up with more if it's you fencing versus if it's your child. I do not remember the thread name but there was something not too long ago about what to look for in a coach and club/school/academy/center/etc that may help you.

Bottomline, do you get what you pay for? It may be worth paying more for a nicer, not necessarily better, coach or facility.

Good Luck.

[Tai Wilson]

I pay $20 a month or so, but I just go to some little hole-in-the-wall average joe type place in my local community, so that's probably why it's so cheap.

[sabreman]

Our club fees are low ($90.00 a year) but we have two of the best coaches in the Washington DC area. They charge 25 - 30 dollar a lesson.

[duel mom]

WOW Gladious, what an operator! Our fees include coaches travel expenses and strip coaching into the monthly dues at the local fencing only level and fees still are more than double Random's club. I will look around, something I did not do in the beginning. Fencing sounded so novel to me then, I was ignorant. Maybe I will learn to appreciate what I have or maybe I will be rereading the 'how do you leave a club' thread.

[fluidfencer]

I am surprised that a parent would throw money at a sport to the extent noted above. We are generally not competing with other fencing clubs, except in the larger cities. We ARE competing with other sports, especially when kids are involved. An informed parent can look at gymnastics, dance, lacrosse, tennis, swimming... and see how they compare. Our coaches have great credentials, but who would pay $2,000 per month no matter how wealthy they are?

At the same time, I am puzzled by people teaching classes for $10 per month. I understand that you have a full-time job that pays the bills outside of fencing, but are you planning on doing this for awhile? How are you going to fund equipment, repairs/maintenance and other expenses? Someone mentioned paying $50 for a gym. Will that be available forever, or had you better plan for needing a more permanent space in the future?

I get the impression that both extremes are a little short-sighted.

[ZenEpeeist]

Originally Posted by fluidfencer

At the same time, I am puzzled by people teaching classes for $10 per month. I understand that you have a full-time job that pays the bills outside of fencing, but are you planning on doing this for awhile? How are you going to fund equipment, repairs/maintenance and other expenses? Someone mentioned paying $50 for a gym. Will that be available forever, or had you better plan for needing a more permanent space in the future?

I get the impression that both extremes are a little short-sighted.

Hey, you are entitled to your opinion. I just don't like to charge any more than necessary. I feel that people who can't pay a lot should be entitled to fence also. If it comes at the cost of being something great then I'm willing to make that choice.

$10 a month covers our expenses plus some savings. $50 a month is REALLY cheap for a practice location (but it's a good location). I might end up teaching a few classes somewhere else to bring in extra...

[gojujay]

I'm the armorer so I don't pay in money. However, if you took time as a currency then I probably pay a lot. It covers my daughter's once-a-week lesson too

[scarlet_woman156k]

I think it depends on the goals of the club, really. I find that "lower costing" clubs tend to have people who are purely recreational and never go to a competition and it's more "social." My club specifically is having a hard time trying to integrate additional qualified coaches because the fencers were complaining the lesson prices cost too much (trust me, they aren't expensive based on the skills of the coaches and lesson averages across the USA). Hello? You're not going to get some hack giving you a lesson, people. If you want to be a hack, go take lessons w/one. They want world-class lessons at Wal-Mart prices...ain't going to happen.

Sorry, do I sound elitist?

So, there might be a problem starting a club at basement prices...it might not evolve and/or be able to have varying levels of "expertise" and price ranges, thus stagnating the success of the club's programs and its offerings. It will result in a recreational activity only. Not that that's a bad thing, but it makes it more difficult if there is a desire for expansion. That's just my opinion from what I've seen. I know some of the better clubs in the USA seem to have a tiered program where newer fencers are given lessons by assistants and/or high-level fencers, and as they progress they have access to the head coaches. It offers a nice range and a ladder for people, if they so choose to climb it.

[ZenEpeeist]

It's simply a case of mind over matter. I don't mind, so it doesn't matter.

Call us what you will...hack,etc...the fencing community needs people to train beginners and intermediate fencers, not just "elite" coaches.

If you haven't already noticed, I look at things differently than the main stream...

[scarlet_woman156k]

Originally Posted by ZenEpeeist

It's simply a case of mind over matter. I don't mind, so it doesn't matter.

Call us what you will...hack,etc...the fencing community needs people to train beginners and intermediate fencers, not just "elite" coaches.

If you haven't already noticed, I look at things differently than the main stream...

Fencing is for everyone and at whatever level they like to pursue, I don't dispute that. I'm a huge advocate of providing cost-effective programs to the masses. However, I sincerely believe and demand that coaches have an obligation to their students to teach properly and correctly, which I'm sorry, a lot don't.

New coaches should be involved in a mentoring program with a "master" coach. Just as a student learns to fence from a coach, so too should a coach learn to teach fencing through the guidence of someone that truly knows what they are doing. Not "monkey see monkey do" as a good many places end up being. I guess that could be the same for anything, really. You're going to have to pardon my perfectionist angle about fencing...I'm like that with everything else. I'm of the opinionated camp of: if you're not going to do it right, don't bother.

[ZenEpeeist]

Originally Posted by scarlet_woman156k

if you're not going to do it right, don't bother.

I agree...mainly they just need good footwork. Many of our students are starting to creep up to "E" level, hopefully we'll see some "D" fencers out there at some point. The ultimate goal is to have one of the students beat me in a tournament. That would be very satisfying.

This is my last post for this thread. I feel like I have gone off topic and I'm "hijacking" it. So now that you know that...fire away!

[achilleus]

I really always thought it was awesome to find cheap fencing places. After talking with some good coaches, I realize how much damage those places do.

First, the quality of instruction is suspect. You will find some great coaches doing great work sometimes, but the case is rare.

The second point, is the damage it does to the dedicated, quality, full time fencing coach. These coaches usually work with students of all ranges. Beginners, youths, competitive, veterans, etc...

Undercutting them hurts the overall coaching community, and thus hurts the fencing community.

[NoFleche]

I'm suprised that more club operators haven't weighed in on this topic.

In a large metro area it costs a fair sum of money to operate a decent private fencing facility. If you think your club dues are too high, make a point of finding out how much it actually costs your club owner to pay the rent, pay for reels/machines, insurance, business license fees, air conditioning on in the summer, etc.

In my neck of the woods, commercial rental space for $50/month is simply unheard of.

[ThatReallyHurt]

The club I'm at charges $200CDN a year for a recreational membership, and $240 for a competitive membership.

I'm no expert, but the coaches at the club both seem pretty good - they devote a certain amount of time per class emphasizing footwork and form, even with the more experienced club members. They're approachable and answer questions too, and they seem reluctant to let people jump ahead without learning certain basics first (I think that's a good thing, at least).

Equipment at the club seems pretty good - some of the weapons look a little older, but everything seems to be in good shape, and not dirty or abused. There's usually about a dozen people who show up, and there's always enough of everything to go around.

Of course, temper this all with the fact that I've only had four classes so far...

[sreckiki]

Originally Posted by NoFleche

I'm suprised that more club operators haven't weighed in on this topic.

In a large metro area it costs a fair sum of money to operate a decent private fencing facility. If you think your club dues are too high, make a point of finding out how much it actually costs your club owner to pay the rent, pay for reels/machines, insurance, business license fees, air conditioning on in the summer, etc.

In my neck of the woods, commercial rental space for $50/month is simply unheard of.

Actually, I would be more interested in what the club operators' incomes are...

it would be more speaking to me...

[scrapinpeg]

I pay about $550 a year for membership, which gets me all the floor time I want and access to the instructors.

Then once a week, $30 gets me a 2-hour class with a top-notch instructor (though I can't make it every week, so it's more like twice a month), and another $30 gets me a 20-minute private lesson with the same guy.

Works out to about $46 a month for membership, which is much lower than most gyms around here. Then $180 a month for lessons with a world-class coach.

I think it's a bargain, especially here in Manhattan. I know people who pay a heck of a lot more for music and other lessons with so-so instructors.

[fluidfencer]

Just to add a little more information:

Minimum fee at our club: $60/month unlimited floor time AND all classes - classes can be 1 to 2 hours long depending on level - all include warmups, drills and bouting - classes held 6 days per week

Maximum fee (practically speaking): $210/month includes unlimited classes (above) plus 8 half-hour private lessons with one of two head coaches.

We have lots of new people so the average monthly fee per student is about $83 (might be slightly lower because we recently added a bunch of new students). Our club roster (I believe it's pretty accurate) shows exactly 100 students.

I would have to check with coach and others before giving all much more detail, but you can certainly make a decent living. I would refer you to my comments above above needing very good coaching to build a sizable program. We also have 75%+ children (16 and under) so there is a lot of volunteer help.

We provide all equipment at the beginning level, including electrics, enough to handle classes of 20 or so.

We got a good rate on rent but it required tons of work up front and about $4,000 to get the space ready. It is about 2600 square feet, five tight strips.

[Black Jeebus]

At our little rinkydink club (we meet in a warehouse) we pay $5 a month and that gets members unlimited access to our resources (ie boxes). My coach (the only coachly person at our club) charges $5 a lesson. So on a yearly basis I spend $50 for club membership (pay a whole year at one time get ten dollars off), and ~$200-260 on lessons (assuming I get about one a week).

[gladius]

The three posts above (#57, 58, 59) give in my opinion three examples of what I call a great deal. I wish more so called clubs/salles would follow these examples. It would help however, to make sure we don't mix apples and oranges, or peanuts, if one would indicate how many nationally ranked fencers these clubs have and their letter ratings (how many A, B, C, etc.).

Then we can compare them with the uber-charging clubs alluded to further up in this thread.