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Mo · 10-04-2004, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword-Chucks

As far as just practicing though, yeah be a good sport. I make it a point never to beat girls in practice.

As a fencer with six years of experience and an E rating, is it your choice to let the "girls" win?
That is a good excuse. Keep up the pretense.

hmmmmm.... · 10-05-2004, 12:14 AM

Ok, there seems to be some sort of imagining that screaming is unsportsmanlike. Which is rediculous. I mean, jeez, have you guys ever seen basketball players? We don't make fun of people, we just celebrate our success. You get a touch, you scream, if you're in a tight spot, you scream louder. In saber, surprisingly enough, screams throw touches your way. That's not unsportsmanlike. It's a tactic.

You know, a while back, the remise was considered unsportsmanlike, too....

Pun · 10-05-2004, 12:37 AM

The problem with that is that you should have to fence well to get a point not scream loud.

Steroids aren't a tactic, its cheating, even though it only tips the scale towards you and does not fix anything.

Not arguing the point that screaming is ridiculous and stupid, it is a bad thing when you use it to try and change anything in the out come of the bout. That is cheating, anything that is not part of the sport and tips the balance towards yourself is cheating, period. Its not a pyscological thing its cheating. If it is only to release tension then that iis one thing but that happens during or immedeatley after the point is called, not after you see that both lights came on and you yell "YES!!!" thats stupid and unsportsman like.

BTW, I dont really make that much noise when I fence, i think that if I was fencing at a very (very) high level that might change, but the closest I have ever come to yelling is releasing all the air from my lungs, AFTER, the point had been called. It was a team match and I was in the last bout it was 44-44 for about 3 minutes (non-electric), which is ton of time when your fencing. I won BTW

.

mrbiggs · 10-05-2004, 12:56 AM

There's a fine line between a scream and a

SCREAM.

I scream from time to time, often on difficult or complicated touched, such as a close attack in prep, so the director knows that I thought I got the touch. (That's important sometimes, if the director thinks that you think you lost the touch, he is very unlikely to give it to you.)

I don't scream loudly, not even when I win a big bout. Of course, when it IS a big bout, I don't blame someone for screaming loudly on the final touch after la belle or whatever. The problem is the fencers that scream after: Every. Touch. Loudly. Like we both advance, and then lunge, a clear simultaneous. I recover, and start to stand up, and I hear "OWOWOWOWOAHPAH!" from the other fencer, as he celebrates his "touch". MOST of the time, the director ignores him and calls it simultaneous, but after 5 or 10, he usually starts making the occaisional bad call his way. It's psychological, they aren't being unfair, they can't help it.

So-controlled screaming=OK. Loud, obnoxious screaming after every touch, no matter who got the point=not OK, annoying.

mackillian · 10-05-2004, 12:57 AM

I'm one of those silent fencers. For the most part, anyway. I tend to get very frustrated with myself when I make a stupid error and up yelling at MYSELF.

But I'm a quiet person. I do find the yelling after getting a point to be unsportsmanlike--but I think that of any sport. The "ha! In your face!" stuff.

But that's my view and my own bias.

Epee_Pox · 10-05-2004, 03:10 AM

If you're straining that extra bit to make the touch, and you're grunting with the effort, then well done.

If you let out a whoop of celebration or moan of dismay after an unusually hard-fought touch, that's only natural.

But if you're making a lot of noise after every action, you're being a dork. And many of the rest of us are raising our eyebrows with quiet disapproval when you do it.

LordTofuDog-jnr · 10-05-2004, 05:06 AM

Screaming = good for stress relief.

B1tch1ng about screaming = a waste of time because screamers will ignore your complaints.

Having debates over screaming = pointless because screamers and scream-haters will never agree, only agree to disagree or in some cases accept each others opinions.

So if you're going to agree to disagree do it before posting two pages of why screaming is good or bad. If you're going to accept each other then don't bother getting in on the argument and just let the fools go at it. (Yes I'm aware of the ironey(sp) of posting about not posting)

Hurriranger · 10-05-2004, 05:20 AM

i get emotional all the time. i wouldn't call what i do "screaming" or "yelling" but a roar or a loud grunt. prehaps yelling "YYYEESSS" or " CMOON" once in a while.

for example, score is 38-43 and you just made a hit, infact you keep going till the score is 44-44 and letting some emotions out really make you feel better.

sabreur · 10-05-2004, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurriranger

i get emotional all the time. i wouldn't call what i do "screaming" or "yelling" but a roar or a loud grunt. prehaps yelling "YYYEESSS" or " CMOON" once in a while.

for example, score is 38-43 and you just made a hit, infact you keep going till the score is 44-44 and letting some emotions out really make you feel better.

Hey, the Aussie sabreur is back!

MR

Hurriranger · 10-05-2004, 06:06 AM

sure am! miss me? took a little break from the forums and fencing. Back now and ready to pick up everything again. :-)

Inquartata · 10-05-2004, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword-Chucks

Doesn't matter if its sportsman like or not, a win is a win. If you're fencing at a competitive level you have to expect people doing what it takes to win and not holding back. There is honor in that. There's a time for sportsmanship, manners and whatnot, and there is a time to just go full out.

This sort of win-at-any-cost attitude is appalling. Absolutely appalling. I hope it is limited to you; hate to think that it was widespread in this sport.

Inquartata · 10-05-2004, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwordSoul

Screaming is sometimes just a necessity.

"Necessity"? Then how do you explain those who do not do it? Ever?

In the words of Inigo Montoya, "I do no think that word means what you think it means."

necessary
SYLLABICATION: nec·es·sar·y
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: ns-sr KEY
ADJECTIVE: 1. Absolutely essential. See synonyms at indispensable.
2. Needed to achieve a certain result or effect; requisite: the necessary tools.
3a. Unavoidably determined by prior conditions or circumstances; inevitable: the necessary results of overindulgence. b. Logically inevitable.
4. Required by obligation, compulsion, or convention: made the necessary apologies.

Under which of these is screaming while fencing ever a "necessity", such that it must always be done?

Quote:

By telling people not to scream it's like you're telling them not to fight their hardest, and that should offend whether you are male or female....

I struggled to find a more polite way to put it, but...nonsense. Try telling Curt Andrus that he isn't "fighting his hardest" because he doesn't shriek like a harpooned boar after every ( or any ) touch.

Nonsense.

Inquartata · 10-05-2004, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwordSoul

I mean, honestly, does it really annoy people that much?

Let me put it this way:

Yes.

Inquartata · 10-05-2004, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

It's psychological, they aren't being unfair, they can't help it.

Gotta dispute this. It may be habitual, but there are very few truly irresistible impulses.

How long do you think they would "not be able to help it" if it became a cardable offense and it started LOSING them touches instead of
( hypothetically ) gaining them?

ThornOfTheBlood · 10-05-2004, 07:29 AM

Phew, inquartata, I'm so glad you posted, I was going to refrain from posting what you did because I don't even have 60 posts yet on this board, and you have well over that

so it's better if someone who everyone knows makes a point, than have someone new do it.

Inquartata · 10-05-2004, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordTofuDog-jnr

Screaming = good for stress relief.

B1tch1ng about screaming = a waste of time because screamers will ignore your complaints.

Screaming=silly and unnecessary.

Trying to convince people that voicing their objections is useless=attempt to squelch an opinion with which you disagree and to keep it from providing any further cognitive dissonance.

Have you ever heard of "peer pressure"?

( I bet you aren't buying it. See, my verdict isn't going to satisfy you or end the discussion any more than your diametrically opposite one will.

)

Quote:

Having debates over screaming = pointless because screamers and scream-haters will never agree, only agree to disagree or in some cases accept each others opinions.

Isn't that the point of debate? To convince?

dunastor · 10-05-2004, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Isn't that the point of debate? To convince?

No.... the reward of a debate is in the debate itself...

sabreur · 10-05-2004, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunastor

No.... the reward of a debate is in the debate itself...

The thread of a thousand posts begins with a single word...

Inquartata · 10-05-2004, 10:12 AM

But why stop at a thousand? That's just defeatist!

JackSparrow · 10-05-2004, 10:14 AM

What about a fencer's supporters cheering when they think he's hit his opponent? Wouldn't you class that as trying to influence the referee's decision? Maybe we should pay some bouncers to stop any would be spectators at the door.