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SwordSoul · 10-04-2004, 10:04 AM

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***Craig*** · 10-04-2004, 10:28 AM

I agree with Matt (SwordSoul) on this one.

About 99%+ of my yells are done with/after the touch but before the referee has made their call. I don't do it to influence the referee (because no good referee is really influenced by that and I like to fence like I'm in front of good referees - even when I'm not.) I yell because it provides me an emotional release and psychological boost. Part of that combative psychology mentioned in the Kogler/Phych thread.

Sometimes I'll even give myself a little grunt, right before getting enguard, after I've lost a couple of touches in a row. It's a way of releasing the "negative" emotion and getting my focus back on the next touch.

There are some times (less than 1%), where I do premeditate the yell. This is a totally psychological tactic and I do it against other fencers who rely on the yell to get them going with the bout. They yell after a couple of touches, get on a roll, then I take a touch back - I yell. I don't yell in the person's face though - if I did I would expect a card for it.

Now, in my younger days I would let my emotions get out of control and yell inappropriately/way too much, but enough beatdowns by the top-24 fencers at nationals and NACs plus a better understanding of my bout psychology greatly curbed that.

All in all - Are there some fencers who scream/yell too much? Yes. Is all screaming/yelling bad? No. Will this subject keep coming up just like the "flick in foil" threads? You bet.

Cheers,
Craig

Zara_athlen · 10-04-2004, 10:43 AM

I've got mixed feelings about the screaming. One the one hand if it builds you up than go ahead and maybe a little polite shout is not bad. However at a recent tournament I was at, everytime this guy scored a point he would scream extremey loud, then stop turn around, point at the box where his light was and point at it and start screaming again.

In my opinion thats going past pysching yourself up and entering the realm of disprespecting your opponent. So im down with a little self congrats, but not down with shouting so loud the whole entire tournament is getting annoyed.

Victor · 10-04-2004, 12:01 PM

Fencing has historically been referred to as "the silent sport," and it wasn't uncommon for refs (aka "directors" then) to remind fencers to "please hush." It's only been in the last three decades that screams and shouts have gotten out of hand, since the rules were eliminated that required blades to be wrapped in noise-deadening cloth and emotional outburts be expelled into paper sacks. I miss the days when an overly excited fencer could be seen screaming incoherently into his brown bag between touches.

(sigh) Our sport is in an irreversable downward spiral to uncouth barbarism.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 10-04-2004, 01:48 PM

occasionally, if it was a hard earned point, I let out a big tarzan yell. Other than that, I dont make a peep.

Sword-Chucks · 10-04-2004, 01:54 PM

I wish I could yell. We've got a deaf kid in my class and he yells sometimes but I can't bring myself to do it.
But really, it helps you fence, raises adrenaline levels. Doesn't matter if its sportsman like or not, a win is a win. If you're fencing at a competitive level you have to expect people doing what it takes to win and not holding back. There is honor in that. There's a time for sportsmanship, manners and whatnot, and there is a time to just go full out. There's something to be said for trying your hardest.
As far as just practicing though, yeah be a good sport. I make it a point never to beat girls in practice.

Thorin · 10-04-2004, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword-Chucks

As far as just practicing though, yeah be a good sport. I make it a point never to beat girls in practice.

Ewww.

You mean you don't respect them enought to ever let them have a chance at an honest victory? When you don't give someone your real effort in fencing you're just lying to them, and you deprive them of the opportunity to learn how to actualy beat you.

achilleus · 10-04-2004, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorin

When you don't give someone your real effort in fencing you're just lying to them, and you deprive them of the opportunity to learn how to actualy beat you.

That's why I rarely fence all out in practice. I don't want my opponent to learn how to beat me in a tournament.

Note:
This is regardless of sex.

SwordSoul · 10-04-2004, 06:33 PM

Not trying to keep a closed mind here, but i believe that when I learned fencing when I did, if i found out that a barf-bag for expletives and cheers was part of required tournament gear well... does that sound fun to anyone else? y'know, before i gave fencing a shot, i would have called it a wussy sport (i was pretty ignorant kid--not that much has changed

) and it's stuff like that that would have just reinforced it. Heck, even Aldo Nadi had to fight that image in his book a bit.

I can totally appreciate fencing's long and illustrious (sp) history as a fine art and the science of the age-old duel etc..etc... but something about the sport being based on making a killing weapon more efficient to me negates any comments about civility. Absolutely, as athletes and especially as fencers we should expect to give and receive as much honor and dignity as is humanly possible to each other (by god you better mean that salute!), but this talk of not being able to express/experience emotion and celebration and stiffling effort for the sake of prim composure..particularly innocent and positive emotion, well to me that is far less dignified.

I don't mean to take this thread away from the topic of screaming but as a combat sport, the nature of the duel is to fight and fight hard. If anyone gave me less than 110% going into a bout I would feel extremely cheated. Ditto for females. Screaming is sometimes just a necessity. I think that is why the salute to each other, the audience and the director, the handshake, keeping an attitude of composure and dignity in all aspects of fencing is super important. It's not that sportsmanship is irrelevant--in fact it's extremely important!-- because once the director says "fence" then it's on, baby. The etiquette and the respect and the honor ensures that the fight is purely the fight, regardless of what happens. The fight is the reason for the fight, and both better give it their all, no holds barred, or the whole experience is bastardized, and then negative emotion and ill will enter the picture and then etiquette and all that just becomes fancy window dressing for some lousy stuffy white European sport. By telling people not to scream it's like you're telling them not to fight their hardest, and that should offend whether you are male or female....

Repechage · 10-04-2004, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword-Chucks

As far as just practicing though, yeah be a good sport. I make it a point never to beat girls in practice.

Huh? How is that being a good sport? Throwing bouts is cheating, and condescending to "girls" is sexism. Neither of those is part of good sportsmanship.

achilleus · 10-04-2004, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwordSoul

Screaming is sometimes just a necessity.

Your opinions are, of course, yours. I agree with most of them.

I think, however, that you should really qualify this statement with a 'for me.'

I'm a screamer. When I'm trying to win, I scream to release tension, to remind myself to breathe, etc...

At the same time, I've won hard fought boughts without screaming. It really depends on my state of mind.

That's me. I've fenced plenty of good fencers who don't make a sound. There may not be many of them, but they do exist.

So, it isn't a requirement that one scream to fence their hardest, nor is screaming a sign that one is fencing one's hardest.

esskreemr · 10-04-2004, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword-Chucks

As far as just practicing though, yeah be a good sport. I make it a point never to beat girls in practice.

That's not being a good sport. That's patronizing. You're not doing anyone good by fencing below you're level unless you're warming up or focusing on a specific technique.

ThornOfTheBlood · 10-04-2004, 09:46 PM

Swordsoul, your post made me laugh so hard. Your reasons for screaming are so freakin biased it's not even funny, and how the heck is screaming "yess!" or other such things in different languages releasing tension? That is definatly say to the ref "I know what happened, I got the point" and just being an *** in general. You can breathe deep and such if you like, but after a touch you don't have to turn and scream as loud as you possibly can, it's very arrogant. And because you don't scream, that doesn't make you some "Aryan"(for those who know the REAL definition of that word) priss who has his/her nose in the air all the time, I mean come on.

Lungin' Ry · 10-04-2004, 09:55 PM

Honestly I really can't help when I yell when fencing, although I do not scream (weird), I do give a "rah!" or some other slight yell when I lunge...

ThornOfTheBlood · 10-04-2004, 09:59 PM

That's not bad, just when people really light the place up with their sometimes quite pathetically pitched voices.

Lungin' Ry · 10-04-2004, 10:02 PM

Lol yeah i know what you mean... I hate that.

SwordSoul · 10-04-2004, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThornOfTheBlood

Swordsoul, your post made me laugh so hard. Your reasons for screaming are so freakin biased it's not even funny, and how the heck is screaming "yess!" or other such things in different languages releasing tension? That is definatly say to the ref "I know what happened, I got the point" and just being an *** in general. You can breathe deep and such if you like, but after a touch you don't have to turn and scream as loud as you possibly can, it's very arrogant. And because you don't scream, that doesn't make you some "Aryan"(for those who know the REAL definition of that word) priss who has his/her nose in the air all the time, I mean come on.

well, as said, they are "My" reasons for screaming/yelling/tantruming

-- so I guess they ARE biased from my end, but i feel that's okay, no one has to really agree with anything on there IMO, it's just more ranting on why i scream and am in favor of it--and i'll admit I got purty soapboxy on that last post... but also as said, it's not for everyone. I guess my whole thing is ya don't hafta scream, don't hate tha screamers LOL. I mean, honestly, does it really annoy people that much? I would like to say that I DO admire people who whup butt and stay quiet (my coach lets out a quiet ooooo when he scores--we had an interesting conversation on it being indicative of our mental games), it's just not my cup of tea, and I dont feel it's dentrimental to anything.

Cheers!

P.S. It's only screaming, you still gotta do the stabbing part of course!

Sabresque · 10-04-2004, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquartata

I'm given to believe that some coaches are actually teaching these histrionics.

Both my coaches have

And I believe they're considered quite good.

ThornOfTheBlood · 10-04-2004, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwordSoul

well, as said, they are "My" reasons for screaming/yelling/tantruming

-- so I guess they ARE biased from my end, but i feel that's okay, no one has to really agree with anything on there IMO, it's just more ranting on why i scream and am in favor of it--and i'll admit I got purty soapboxy on that last post... but also as said, it's not for everyone. I guess my whole thing is ya don't hafta scream, don't hate tha screamers LOL. I mean, honestly, does it really annoy people that much? I would like to say that I DO admire people who whup butt and stay quiet (my coach lets out a quiet ooooo when he scores--we had an interesting conversation on it being indicative of our mental games), it's just not my cup of tea, and I dont feel it's dentrimental to anything.

Cheers!

P.S. It's only screaming, you still gotta do the stabbing part of course!

HOLY CRAP!! SOMEONE ON THIS BOARD CAN REPLY WITHOUT FLAMES! In that I applaud you lol.

I never say anything when I fence, I just don't feel the need to say anything during a bout, though this week for sure I think after drills I'm going to scream and see them all laugh at me haha. I didn't really think coaches ENCOURAGED screaming, but ah well.

Peach · 10-04-2004, 10:49 PM

I have been known to yell (I don't scream). I also bark, I'm told ("Whoff"), and occasionally say "Hey-yo!". I'm generally surprised when I do it, and I know there are people who are quite irritated by any noise, but generally since they have already made their minds up about why I do it and don't want to hear anything else, I've given up worrying about what they think.

I will agree that I don't like shrill screaming, but generally it's because it makes me giggle. It also, as I have grown more deaf, is painful. It's very annoying that deafness should make high-frequency noise hurt instead of making it go away.