en garde...ready...fence!

[Cavatione]

This thread is magnificent!

I can't help but agree with gladius with his numerous and good points. Especially, like geolapins underlined, context is many times the basic of our reasonement.

Probably it's true that we should switch to the new "lingua franca", english... But wich kind of english? British one or American one? (ok, that's a provocation... ).

[geolapins]

And a good one. I agree that this thread is mighty interesting. As to 'lingua franca', I like the french (in deference to Cavatione, if it were italian, I'd prefer that as well).

[gladius]

I had yo break my word when I read this from Cavatione,

quote
....the new "lingua franca", english... But wich kind of english? British one or American one?
unquote

Here is how some well known people have defined the problem,

"The Americans are identical to the British in all respects except, of course, language."
Oscar Wilde

"Giving English to an American is like giving sex to a child. He knows it's important but he doesn't know what to do with it."
Adam Cooper (19th century)

"We (the British and Americans) are two countries separated by a common language."
G.B. Shaw

And as to pronunciation:

The Englishman commented to the American about the "curious" way in which he pronounced so many words, such as schedule (pronounced shedule). The American thought about it for a few moments, then replied, "Perhaps it's because we went to different shools!"

As a "lingua franca" I vote for American English, more practical, less pretentious, more effective, and last, but not least, more democratic.

In a different time, mid 18th century, Friedrich der Grosse (Friedrich the Great, emperor of Germany) said,

"I talk to God in Latin, to people in my Court in French, to people of culture in Italian, to my horses in English, and to my dogs in German."

Things have changed since then... Go USA!

[geolapins]

and I'm glad you did...I was lol any number of times reading your post. But, if you give 'lingua franca' status to American english, you might hear something like "On garden...radish...what are you waiting for, numskulls?" . I especially liked Shaw's quote. Actually, I've been thinking about how to integrate fencing and hip-hop (rap) music. I was going to include on my website a link to a music video by the American group Black Eyed Peas. The song is entitled 'Shut Up'. It's available via Yahoo's Launchcast. Haven't figured out how to connect to it seamlessly. I also tried wearing a 'do rag' under mask. Does anyone use such head gear when fencing?

[Larrison]

Re: Dueling...

Gentlemen, if swords aren't acceptable, may I suggest champagne corks at 10 paces? Works here in California. After the first volley, if neither party has been struck or honor not satisifed, the two principals are required to toast their opponents, the director, the seconds, and any on lookers. A second shot may not be made until each opponent's weapon is fully discharged (eg empty), and it is the responsibility of each party to empty their weapon fully before firing a second shot, er.. cork. At the agreement of both parties, the seconds may be called up to help speed in the rearming of the principals.

The duel continues until one party falls or cannot continue.

[geolapins]

I like it!

[Cavatione]

Originally Posted by Larrison

Re: Dueling...

Gentlemen, if swords aren't acceptable, may I suggest champagne corks at 10 paces? Works here in California. After the first volley, if neither party has been struck or honor not satisifed, the two principals are required to toast their opponents, the director, the seconds, and any on lookers. A second shot may not be made until each opponent's weapon is fully discharged (eg empty), and it is the responsibility of each party to empty their weapon fully before firing a second shot, er.. cork. At the agreement of both parties, the seconds may be called up to help speed in the rearming of the principals.

The duel continues until one party falls or cannot continue.

Hey, I kinda like this way...

[Cavatione]

Originally Posted by gladius

I had yo break my word when I read this from Cavatione...

AHR AHR AHR! I knew gladius could have never kept silent in front of that!

[Josedariom]

in Spanish if any body was wondering:
En guardia
Listos
Adelante

[DomerPyle]

Originally Posted by sabreur

I think your question is whether German has a separate second person formal gender for verbs.

In German, you have second person familar singular, "du," and second person familiar plural, "ihr." You also have second person formal singular "Sie" and second person formal plural, also "Sie." "Sie" is also the third person feminine pronoun, and the third person plural pronoun. As third person feminine singular, it takes the same verb conjugation as other third person singular forms (er, es). The third person plural and the second person formal singular and plural all take the same form.

Graphically, with the verb "fechten"

Sie (2nd person singular formal) fechten.
Sie (3rd person singular feminine) ficht (irr. verb).
Sie (2nd person plural formal) fechten.
Sie (3rd person plural) fechten.

Confused yet? The complete conjugation in the present tense of "fechten" is below--singular on the left and plural on the right.

Ich fechte Wir fechten
Du fichst Ihr fechtet
Sie fechten Sie fechten
Er, sie, es ficht Sie fechten

:O fechten has a present-tense stem change? what're it's 3 principal parts? oh, and, curiously enough, i've never heard a director (in the US) use any german during a bout. it's always been english or french

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by DomerPyle

:O fechten has a present-tense stem change? what're it's 3 principal parts? oh, and, curiously enough, i've never heard a director (in the US) use any german during a bout. it's always been english or french :(

Okay, let's dredge up an old thread and play with it... Sabreur is in Germany. Reasonable for him to discuss how the Germans use the language in a thread discussing lingual variants.

Originally Posted by geolapins

I know, but I don't have a circumfexed e handy on my keyboard. How's this: En-garde...prêt...allez!

Try holding down the "Alt" key and typing "136" on the numeric keypad. ê

-B

[KD5MDK]

I've heard a fencer use German in a bout, but he thought better of it immediately.

[Qbranch]

Originally Posted by Larrison

Gentlemen, if swords aren't acceptable, may I suggest champagne corks at 10 paces?

Have the French had the final say? Champagne corks indeed!! I must say that I'm surprised Cavatione went along with this suggestion (particulary in light of earlier comments expressing Italian national sentiment)

Recently I was asked about the origins of the terms [i]prime, second, tierce,[i] etc. As far as I have been able to determine the words are taken from the old French (langue d'oil, rather than langue d'oc) but originate with the original quadrants of parry from Agrippa (if I'm incorrect I am certainly open to correction). In any case the origin is surely Italian.

Why not, then, keep the lingua franca Italian (at least for this duel)?