10-06-2004, 06:29 PM
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#61 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Way Out West
Posts: 5,115
| You're right, sabreur - I don't know what I could have been thinking. The other wines are for the sumptous meal after the fencing. Perhaps a nice Riesling too with the Fleishkase.
Oh, for you native German-speaking guys: I was told that the use of "Fraulein" has really dropped off in modern German, and that "Frau" is now used regardless of age or marital status. Is this so?
No guilt here: this thread has been hoplessly hijacked for a long time...
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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10-06-2004, 08:59 PM
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#62 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,752
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by gladius 3. "Sind Sie fertig?" is a question addressed to a fencer asking if he/she is ready to start fencing (using the courtesy form, hence the capital S in Sie).
| So unlike the romance languages verbs do not have a separate commend form and do not change in that case? | 
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10-06-2004, 09:00 PM
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#63 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,752
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by sabreur Help, the Quart Bulldog has got his teeth into my ankle and he won't let GO!!!!!
| I couldn't reach your throat.  | |
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10-06-2004, 09:52 PM
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#64 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 398
| Wines and fencing? Well, champagne is the wine de rigueur if we follow Aldo Nadi after his duel with Cotronei so vividly described in his memoirs.
Champagne is also associated with the habit of French hussars under Napoleon who celebrated their victories with "sabrer le champagne," the opening of a bottle of champagne with the reverse of a saber. When performed correctly it is very impressive. Here are step-by-step instructions on how to do it:
1. Carefully remove the foil and the wire cage around the cork, "undressing" the top of the bottle
2. Feel with your finger the vertical seam in the bottle neck (where the two halves were glued together in making the bottle) and follow all the way up until the neck collar of the bottle. Where the seam touches the rim, that is the exact point which you must hit as described here below.
3. Hold the bottle firmly with the cork high as shown.
4. Lay the blade of the saber flat on the seam with the reverse of the blade (opposite of the cutting edge) towards the cork.
5. Slide the saber along the seam with a wide simple continuous motion. The pressure inside the bottle is 6 kg (about 13 lb.) so there is no need to force it, all you need is to follow the cork and its glass collar in their movement forward (like a smooth swing in golf and follow-up after you hit the ball).
A votre santé! Prost! Cin-cin! To your health!
Notes :
-To get a perfect "sabrage," use a very chilled champagne bottle.
-If you have never tried this, it is advisable to practice before with some cheap bottles of cider or similar inexpensive bubbly!
-Make sure that nobody is in the direction where the cork will be flying.
-This is not suitable for children
Recover the cork with the glass collar.
*
Taken from the following website (in French) with pictures for each step and where you can order a sabre a champagne. This can be done with an ordinary chef knife, but remember not to hit the "sweet spot" with the cutting edge of the knife, but with the reverse! http://www.access-wines.com/sabre_ch..._champagne.php
So my vote is for champagne after fencing. The other good wines mentioned, French, Italians, or even German, are all good under the appropriate circumstances. As in fencing, no need to try to push one national product on top of another. | |
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10-07-2004, 03:44 AM
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#65 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,488
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata So unlike the romance languages verbs do not have a separate commend form and do not change in that case? | I think your question is whether German has a separate second person formal gender for verbs.
In German, you have second person familar singular, "du," and second person familiar plural, "ihr." You also have second person formal singular "Sie" and second person formal plural, also "Sie." "Sie" is also the third person feminine pronoun, and the third person plural pronoun. As third person feminine singular, it takes the same verb conjugation as other third person singular forms (er, es). The third person plural and the second person formal singular and plural all take the same form.
Graphically, with the verb "fechten"
Sie (2nd person singular formal) fechten.
Sie (3rd person singular feminine) ficht (irr. verb).
Sie (2nd person plural formal) fechten.
Sie (3rd person plural) fechten.
Confused yet? The complete conjugation in the present tense of "fechten" is below--singular on the left and plural on the right.
Ich fechte Wir fechten
Du fichst Ihr fechtet
Sie fechten Sie fechten
Er, sie, es ficht Sie fechten
__________________
Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
Last edited by sabreur; 10-07-2004 at 05:50 AM.
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10-07-2004, 04:05 AM
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#66 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC, the WET coast of Canada
Posts: 1,971
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by xcr You actually say
On guard
Fencers ready
play?
I have never heard any but the French (Im in English Canada, not Quebec) | Geez, Canada IS a big country, can't you be more specific about where you live in CDA?
any helpful ref would try his/her best to use the french lingo to ref so any fencers aspiring to fence internationally can be accustomed to those French terms.
Just MHO.
I have a 5-language mini-dictionary from the '83 Edmonton [Alberta] Universiade. English / French / Spanish / German / Russian [the last with both Cyrillic and Roman letters]. then i have my own PRC [People's Republic of China] Chinese list... but alas, no Italian.
On guard! / en garde! / en guardia! / Stellung! / к бою [k boyu]
i think i'll stop here and let others finish this because of gladius's discussion of German...
play / allez / adelante / los / nachinayte
PK
Last edited by pkt; 10-07-2004 at 04:09 AM.
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10-07-2004, 04:09 AM
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#67 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC, the WET coast of Canada
Posts: 1,971
| this is turning into a German class.
How does one remember the genders of the nouns? there seems to me no rhyme or reasons for some of them.
Rote learning? Is that the answer?
There're rhymes and reasons why Chinese words are the way they are. Even their pronunciation - local dialects aside.
PK | |
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10-07-2004, 05:54 AM
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#68 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,488
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by pkt How does one remember the genders of the nouns? there seems to me no rhyme or reasons for some of them.
Rote learning? Is that the answer?
PK | You memorize them. There are some rules--all words ending in -ung are feminine, for instance--and some general guidelines--words ending in -e tend to be feminine, words ending in -er tend to be masculine. But there are exceptions--after more than 30 years of speaking German, I still make lots of mistakes. The best method to remember them is to see them as an inherent part of the word when you first learn it--so you don't learn "Leber" is liver, you learn "die Leber" is liver--then you just have to deal with the fact that it will become "der Leber" in the dative and genitive cases....
MR
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Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
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10-07-2004, 05:59 AM
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#69 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Holland
Posts: 861
| Ah... the joys of highschool, learning German...
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With infinite complacency men went to and fro over this globe about their little affairs, serene in their assurance of their empire over matter | |
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10-07-2004, 06:30 AM
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#70 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,488
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by dunastor Ah... the joys of highschool, learning German... | You know, I tried to support the highjack of this thread to discussions about appropriate alcoholic beverages for fencers, but the Q. Bulldog wouldn't let go of my ankle....
MR
__________________
Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
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10-07-2004, 06:46 AM
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#71 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Holland
Posts: 861
| ...Well sorry sir, you came in into this hospital having a nasty fiendish terrier at your ankle. We tried everything humanly possible, but we were unable to save the leg. Unfortunately we had to amputate your ankle. The way you're feeling now can be attributed to the painkillers, in the course of the day you will be feeling better. The day after tomorrow we will be starting the rehab program....
__________________
With infinite complacency men went to and fro over this globe about their little affairs, serene in their assurance of their empire over matter | |
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10-07-2004, 06:58 AM
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#72 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,488
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by dunastor ...Well sorry sir, you came in into this hospital having a nasty fiendish terrier at your ankle. We tried everything humanly possible, but we were unable to save the leg. Unfortunately we had to amputate your ankle. The way you're feeling now can be attributed to the painkillers, in the course of the day you will be feeling better. The day after tomorrow we will be starting the rehab program.... | As long as you shot the dog...
MR
__________________
Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
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10-07-2004, 02:18 PM
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#73 | | Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Seattle
Posts: 31
| Cavatione, I need more Italian lessons. How do you say "the Italian style of fencing", "salle"? Gracie | |
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10-07-2004, 02:36 PM
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#74 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Venezia, Italia
Posts: 114
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by geolapins Cavatione, I need more Italian lessons. How do you say "the Italian style of fencing", "salle"? Gracie | First sentence: "Lo stile italiano nel tirar di scherma"
Second word: "sala d'arme", or, simply, "sala"; the first one is better though...
BTW: it's not "gracie", but "gra zie"
__________________
"Per me la scherma rappresenta in forme concrete la scienza della vita, che è pur essa una cotidiana battaglia;
ed è per ciò che le signorine dovrebbero apprendere la scherma. La scherma non fa perdere alla donna il carattere della femminilità; e la spada, che sotto i gentili auspici della donna - nella favola come nella vita - operò prodigi, compierà sempre la sua alta missione di valore e di virtù.
Caltagirone 29 luglio 1894
Agesilao Greco
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10-07-2004, 02:46 PM
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#75 | | Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Seattle
Posts: 31
| Отличио!...just what I was looking for
Quote: |
Originally Posted by pkt Geez, Canada IS a big country, can't you be more specific about where you live in CDA?
any helpful ref would try his/her best to use the french lingo to ref so any fencers aspiring to fence internationally can be accustomed to those French terms.
Just MHO.
I have a 5-language mini-dictionary from the '83 Edmonton [Alberta] Universiade. English / French / Spanish / German / Russian [the last with both Cyrillic and Roman letters]. then i have my own PRC [People's Republic of China] Chinese list... but alas, no Italian.
On guard! / en garde! / en guardia! / Stellung! / к бою [k boyu]
i think i'll stop here and let others finish this because of gladius's discussion of German...
play / allez / adelante / los / nachinayte
PK | I put the Chinese on my website | |
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10-07-2004, 03:18 PM
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#76 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 398
| Cavatione two questions for you:
1. Can you explain the role of the commissari tecnici (as I asked in post #58)?
2. Why is Sala d'arme and not Sala d'armi?
Grazie! | |
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10-07-2004, 03:44 PM
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#77 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,752
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by sabreur I think your question is whether German has a separate second person formal gender for verbs.
| No...in romance languages such as Spanish the verbs change for the purpose of giving a command or instruction. In fact, they change with just about every imaginable change in tense: interrogative, past tense, subjunctive, you name it. OTOH, at least there're no such things as neuter nouns... | |
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10-07-2004, 03:45 PM
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#78 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,752
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by sabreur As long as you shot the dog...
MR | Alas, they were all out of kryptonite bullets. | |
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10-07-2004, 04:23 PM
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#79 | | Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Seattle
Posts: 31
| pkt, can you give me the Cyrillic for the whole sequence of commands? | |
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10-07-2004, 04:26 PM
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#80 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Venezia, Italia
Posts: 114
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by gladius Wines and fencing? Well, champagne is the wine de rigueur if we follow Aldo Nadi after his duel with Cotronei so vividly described in his memoirs.
Champagne is also associated with the habit of French hussars under Napoleon who celebrated their victories with "sabrer le champagne," the opening of a bottle of champagne with the reverse of a saber. When performed correctly it is very impressive. Here are step-by-step instructions on how to do it:
1. Carefully remove the foil and the wire cage around the cork, "undressing" the top of the bottle... |
You forgot the last point:
-Drink champagne with glass shards in it! 
__________________
"Per me la scherma rappresenta in forme concrete la scienza della vita, che è pur essa una cotidiana battaglia;
ed è per ciò che le signorine dovrebbero apprendere la scherma. La scherma non fa perdere alla donna il carattere della femminilità; e la spada, che sotto i gentili auspici della donna - nella favola come nella vita - operò prodigi, compierà sempre la sua alta missione di valore e di virtù.
Caltagirone 29 luglio 1894
Agesilao Greco
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