10-04-2004, 02:34 PM
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#21 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: CA area
Posts: 6,255
| In German:
Fertig? (Ready?)
Los! (Go!)
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10-04-2004, 04:43 PM
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#22 | | Just Joined
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8
| In sweden we use French:
Prêt (Prepare)
Allez! (go!) | |
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10-05-2004, 06:29 AM
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#23 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,752
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by edew In German:
Fertig? (Ready?)
Los! (Go!) | Babelfish gives "fertig" as "finished", and "ready" as "bereit"... | |
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10-05-2004, 09:07 AM
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#24 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Holland
Posts: 861
| "Ready" and "finished" are also synonyms...
IIRC "Fertig" and "los" are the words used in German, but maybe a German can comment on that... 
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With infinite complacency men went to and fro over this globe about their little affairs, serene in their assurance of their empire over matter | |
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10-05-2004, 09:26 AM
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#25 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,488
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by dunastor "Ready" and "finished" are also synonyms...
IIRC "Fertig" and "los" are the words used in German, but maybe a German can comment on that... | EDEW and dunastor are correct.
Fertig can mean both "finished" and "ready."
The commands in German are "fertig-los."
MR
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Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
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10-05-2004, 10:27 AM
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#26 | | Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Seattle
Posts: 31
| Her's what I used: In guardia...Pronti...A voi! and, for club patch, stemma | |
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10-05-2004, 10:31 AM
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#27 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,752
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by sabreur EDEW and dunastor are correct.
Fertig can mean both "finished" and "ready."
The commands in German are "fertig-los."
MR |
OK, so what is "bereit"?
And ( I mean und ) how would you say the whole phrase, "Are you ready"? | |
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10-05-2004, 10:46 AM
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#28 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,488
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata OK, so what is "bereit"?
And ( I mean und ) how would you say the whole phrase, "Are you ready"? | "Bereit" also means "ready."
But the term of art for "Are you ready" in the German fencing world is "Sind Sie fertig?" (formal second person plural interrogative).
If you are hanging around the club, it is "Seid ihr fertig?" (informal second person plural interrogative).
I actually direct in (very bad) French most of the time.
MR
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Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
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10-05-2004, 11:07 AM
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#29 | | Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Seattle
Posts: 31
| So, now I'm thinking maybe I should have this in as many languages as there are respondents to this thread. On my website, I have the word "fencing" in German, French, Russian, and Latvian. Так, как ето скаzанно по-русски? Latviski? | |
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10-05-2004, 11:31 AM
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#30 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,752
| What about the German for "ready" as a command rather than a question? | |
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10-05-2004, 11:38 AM
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#31 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,488
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Originally Posted by Inquartata What about the German for "ready" as a command rather than a question? | Help, the Quart Bulldog has got his teeth into my ankle and he won't let GO!!!!!
"Fertig!"
Ready!
'Nuff?
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Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
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10-05-2004, 11:40 AM
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#32 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Venezia, Italia
Posts: 114
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by geolapins So, now I'm thinking maybe I should have this in as many languages as there are respondents to this thread. On my website, I have the word "fencing" in German, French, Russian, and Latvian. Так, как ето скаzанно по-русски? Latviski? | In italian is "scherma" (pron: skErmA). The word ethimologicaly comes from "schermo", or else, "screen"; in fact, that's the first purpose of fencing as a science and a martial art: a screen against the enemy's blows...
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"Per me la scherma rappresenta in forme concrete la scienza della vita, che è pur essa una cotidiana battaglia;
ed è per ciò che le signorine dovrebbero apprendere la scherma. La scherma non fa perdere alla donna il carattere della femminilità; e la spada, che sotto i gentili auspici della donna - nella favola come nella vita - operò prodigi, compierà sempre la sua alta missione di valore e di virtù.
Caltagirone 29 luglio 1894
Agesilao Greco
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10-05-2004, 11:49 AM
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#33 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Venezia, Italia
Posts: 114
| [quote=geolapins] On my website, I have the word "fencing"... [quote]
Could you please link your website? I'm curious
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"Per me la scherma rappresenta in forme concrete la scienza della vita, che è pur essa una cotidiana battaglia;
ed è per ciò che le signorine dovrebbero apprendere la scherma. La scherma non fa perdere alla donna il carattere della femminilità; e la spada, che sotto i gentili auspici della donna - nella favola come nella vita - operò prodigi, compierà sempre la sua alta missione di valore e di virtù.
Caltagirone 29 luglio 1894
Agesilao Greco
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10-05-2004, 12:07 PM
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#34 | | Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Seattle
Posts: 31
| It's www.elitescherma.com, not 'official' yet | |
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10-05-2004, 12:24 PM
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#35 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 398
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by sabreur "Bereit" also means "ready."
But the term of art for "Are you ready" in the German fencing world is "Sind Sie fertig?" (formal second person plural interrogative).
If you are hanging around the club, it is "Seid ihr fertig?" (informal second person plural interrogative).
I actually direct in (very bad) French most of the time.
MR | Let me add my 2 Pfennigs (cents) about the German terminology. 
1. Never use Babelfish to translate any foreign language. It may give an idea, but the idea may be the wrong one. What do you expect from a computer? 
2. Fertig actually means "done" with the previous task, therefore you are ready to start the new task. Bereit means that you are prepared for the new task. In the German mind you'd better be finished with the previous task before even thinking to start something new and dangerous as a duel. No parallel thinking allowed. 
3. "Sind Sie fertig?" is a question addressed to a fencer asking if he/she is ready to start fencing (using the courtesy form, hence the capital S in Sie).
4. "Seid ihr fertig?" is a question addressed to both fencers asking them if they are ready to start the bout.
5. "Seid ihr fertig!" is a command to both fencers to get ready to start the bout. This may or may not be used and in the classical sense it shouldn't since after the "En garde!" warning, for safety and fairness, the question should follow whether the fencers are ready to start or not.
6. The last sentence is the command to start, go, "Los!" (literally you are free to go ahead) or as in Italian, "A voi!" where now the situation is in the hands of the fencers, until the "Halt!" command.
Notice how this sequence of statements from the judge, a strong invitation to get in position to start something (deadly) serious (In guardia! En garde! On guard!), a final question to the duelists to see if they are finished with all the preparations -- their last chance to change their mind -- and ready to go at it immediately after the command), and the order to start/go ahead (A voi! Allez! Los!) are common in all sports where a quick start and speed are of the essence. | |
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10-05-2004, 12:31 PM
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#36 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Venezia, Italia
Posts: 114
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by gladius Notice how this sequence of statements from the judge, a strong invitation to get in position to start something (deadly) serious (In guardia! En garde! On guard!), a final question to the duelists to see if they are finished with all the preparations -- their last chance to change their mind -- and ready to go at it immediately after the command), and the order to start/go ahead (A voi! Allez! Los!) are common in all sports where a quick start and speed are of the essence. | I think you touched a very interesting point about fencing.
And, thanks to geolapins' site, where I found the link, I'd suggest everybody to read ldo Nadi's writing about the duel he faced in Italy: http://nadi.calpoly.edu/~fencing/Doc...ical/nadi.html
I think this is one of the most vivid written duels ever portraied...
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"Per me la scherma rappresenta in forme concrete la scienza della vita, che è pur essa una cotidiana battaglia;
ed è per ciò che le signorine dovrebbero apprendere la scherma. La scherma non fa perdere alla donna il carattere della femminilità; e la spada, che sotto i gentili auspici della donna - nella favola come nella vita - operò prodigi, compierà sempre la sua alta missione di valore e di virtù.
Caltagirone 29 luglio 1894
Agesilao Greco
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10-05-2004, 01:39 PM
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#37 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 398
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Cavatione I think you touched a very interesting point about fencing.
And, thanks to geolapins' site, where I found the link, I'd suggest everybody to read ldo Nadi's writing about the duel he faced in Italy: http://nadi.calpoly.edu/~fencing/Doc...ical/nadi.html
I think this is one of the most vivid written duels ever portraied... | What I like about this sport are its roots in history and traditions. Though a fencing bout is completely different from a real duel -- as the writing by Aldo Nadi clearly indicates -- I personally feel that the tradition has been to make it "safe" or safer and preventing uncalled for accidents in an activity which is inherently dangerous. The dilemma has always been how to safely prepare and best train for the one time, or few times, when everything is on the line.
Going back to Nadi's writing, the most interesting part for me is his psychological anaysis of all the parties present at the duel, last but not least the spectators. Mutatis mutandis, it can be applied to what today fencers face in a very important final bout.
I also liked the part about the ground where he fenced in San Siro. It ties very much with your quotation about "la scherma di terreno." Never underestimate the footwork...... | |
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10-05-2004, 01:40 PM
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#38 | | Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Seattle
Posts: 31
| gladius, wonderful analysis! | |
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10-05-2004, 01:48 PM
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#39 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Way Out West
Posts: 5,115
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by gladius Never use Babelfish to translate any foreign language. It may give an idea, but the idea may be the wrong one. What do you expect from a computer? | That's for sure - "Sind Sie warm?" means "Are you warm?" if translated literally, but means "Are you gay?" in modern usage. So, be careful when you're asking somebody if they want the air conditioner turned up.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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10-05-2004, 02:00 PM
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#40 | | Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Seattle
Posts: 31
| re: Babelfish. The point is well-taken, even though I have no clue what Babelfish is. Who better to respond to a question on Italian fencing terminology than an Italian fencer (e.g Cavatione's answer regarding the word 'club patch'). I am comfortable saying 'En garde, etc' because I know French, but I could make a linguistic mess by trying to say it in Italian. As Wittgenstein said,'Language is a ladder to the universe', or something like that. | |
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