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Pelle · 09-30-2004, 03:32 PM

i was fencing in a club tourney on monday and my opponant was completly and utterly cheating, and as there was no ref (small class tourney) i could not complain really so ill do it now. this fencer by the way is horrible and only beat me becasuse i refuse to be cheap on unsportman-like. he would lunge or extend i would parry and his foil would always nail the ground, just before my reposte, he would yell something like "ground!" and demand a restart of the bout. firstly is this valid? and secondly is this considered dirty or cheap, and these were no metal pistes by the way

CvilleFencer · 09-30-2004, 03:36 PM

Did his blade hit the floor before or after you had begun your riposte?

Pelle · 09-30-2004, 03:41 PM

it varied, but i wasn't parrying that hard so unless he is a very weak man i could not see it being strong enough to knock his blade to the floor, this also happened when i beat him to initaite attack

telkanuru · 09-30-2004, 03:45 PM

As long as your action would have ROW in the situation, your opponent's off target does not matter. The proper sequence is either attack-parry-riposte arrives, remise off target or beat attack arrives, counter attack off target. Either way, your ROW, your touch. Also, if it is his ROW at the time, it's only a pause (so, attack off target, center is here, ready, fence).

Pelle · 09-30-2004, 03:47 PM

ok thanks! tonight i shall have to "kindly" point that out to him if we cross swords.

keith · 09-30-2004, 03:48 PM

repeated hitting off target to avoid a hit, or to stop the phase, is a cardable offense.

telkanuru · 09-30-2004, 03:52 PM

Irrelivant if there are no directors, but remember, it dosen't help him at all. A ref at a tourney will call it hands down, so he's setting himself up for defeat.

Pelle · 09-30-2004, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith

repeated hitting off target to avoid a hit, or to stop the phase, is a cardable offense.

it is? well considering it was not a judged bout i don't think carding was in effect. still how should i go about explaining to him that he is breaking the rules?

kalivor · 09-30-2004, 03:54 PM

Deliberate hit not on the opponent = red card.

kalivor · 09-30-2004, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelle

it is? well considering it was not a judged bout i don't think carding was in effect. still how should i go about explaining to him that he is breaking the rules?

Two things:

1. Point out that in a real bout, it would be your hit, as you had priority when he hit the floor, and finished your action in the same tempo (assuming you did).

2. Point out that if you didn't finish your action in time, the purposeful hits to the floor would either do nothing (grounded strip) or result in a cardable offense, giving you the point.

Then, do nothing. As it's not a judged bout, you're free to not care, and work on your fencing. Your opponent will run into trouble when they go to into a judged bout, you will not. Though don't be caught off guard when other opponents attempt a counter-parry instead of a remise to the floor.

Hopefully you have other training partners who will be willing to fence properly.

Mo · 09-30-2004, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelle

it is? well considering it was not a judged bout i don't think carding was in effect. still how should i go about explaining to him that he is breaking the rules?

Although it may be hard to do, don't explain the rules. Let him think he beat you. Continue to support his delusions.
Wait. Let him get in a meet with real referees and lose very badly. He needs a rude awakening. Let him have it.
I've seen this happen to a lot of kid fencers. They are masters at arguing. The kids they fence in the club just let them have the point. Then they go to an NAC and get no points. They argue with the referees and look stupid. It is a good thing for them to learn.

esskreemr · 09-30-2004, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo

Although it may be hard to do, don't explain the rules. Let him think he beat you. Continue to support his delusions.
Wait. Let him get in a meet with real referees and lose very badly. He needs a rude awakening. Let him have it.
I've seen this happen to a lot of kid fencers. They are masters at arguing. The kids they fence in the club just let them have the point. Then they go to an NAC and get no points. They argue with the referees and look stupid. It is a good thing for them to learn.

I like the way ju tink...

Pelle · 09-30-2004, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo

Although it may be hard to do, don't explain the rules. Let him think he beat you. Continue to support his delusions.
Wait. Let him get in a meet with real referees and lose very badly. He needs a rude awakening. Let him have it.
I've seen this happen to a lot of kid fencers. They are masters at arguing. The kids they fence in the club just let them have the point. Then they go to an NAC and get no points. They argue with the referees and look stupid. It is a good thing for them to learn.

ha ha i like that indeed, plus hes not a kid, im a kid (16) in the adult class he maybe 20 years old , so hes cheating against a kid, thats low lol, i can't wait till we have our end of classes tounrey in dec. then he well be sorry

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 09-30-2004, 04:17 PM

Next time he hits ground, slap him on the calf really really hard with the foible.

keith · 09-30-2004, 04:19 PM

also use this as a practice for staying calm when faced with gamesman ship. Don't argue stay polite and score when you can. As others have said win or lose in a club bout is really no big deal what is important is you practice what you can - even if in this case it is only fostering inner calm in the face of provocation.

Pelle · 09-30-2004, 04:30 PM

hey DFP is your sig from an arby's commercial? lol caus i heard it this mornin' and it sounded exactly like a read you sig, its for the angus burger lol

CvilleFencer · 09-30-2004, 05:24 PM

I think it is from Pulp Fiction. As in the Jules' "Lay My Vengence Upon Thee" scene.

prototoast · 09-30-2004, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo

Although it may be hard to do, don't explain the rules. Let him think he beat you. Continue to support his delusions.
Wait. Let him get in a meet with real referees and lose very badly. He needs a rude awakening. Let him have it.
I've seen this happen to a lot of kid fencers. They are masters at arguing. The kids they fence in the club just let them have the point. Then they go to an NAC and get no points. They argue with the referees and look stupid. It is a good thing for them to learn.

I disagree to a point. I believe he should mention the rules once and give the opponent the chance to learn them. After that he should drop it, but at least try to inform/help a fellow fencer. If the advice is ignored, there's no need to push the issue, but give him the chance.

OffTarget · 09-30-2004, 06:02 PM

Hmm - I think you should lay down on the floor and advise your opponent you are giving him a fighting chance for a couple touches.

esskreemr · 09-30-2004, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prototoast

I disagree to a point. I believe he should mention the rules once and give the opponent the chance to learn them. After that he should drop it, but at least try to inform/help a fellow fencer. If the advice is ignored, there's no need to push the issue, but give him the chance.

I like the way ju tink too...