Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

D'Artagnan1673 · 06-26-2002, 12:46 PM

Our club has recently of adding a saber fencer to our ranks. I've fenced a few times with him and found the weapon to be fun. I guess I wouldn't mind picking electric saber stuff to fence with him. However, gone are the days when I will not batt an eye and an FIE Uhlmann Mask, Ulhmann Saber lame' and two FIE sabers; its time to start penny squeezing to tie the knot with my sweetheart.

Any sugestions on cheap, but high quality FIE stuff? Is it time to be patient and go overseas?

Inquartata · 06-26-2002, 05:45 PM

Let me put it this way:

Yes.

AndrewH · 06-26-2002, 07:55 PM

Do you really need FIE stuff for casual club fencing/local tourneys? If you do want the quality, I agree with Inq, but stay away from Allstar weapons. (reason being they bolt the body cord socket to the guard, meaning that if your socket breaks you have to replace the whole guard. Plus I find the general quality of their weapons to be somewhat poor.) But Allstar is good for lames, etc.

neevel · 06-26-2002, 08:40 PM

I'm not sure that there'd be the same durability vs. cost benefet for maraging sabre blades as there is for foil and epee blades. Maraging steel is not required for FIE 'A' competition, and most sabre fencers seem to conclude that their not worth the money (technically speaking, there's no such thing as an "FIE" sabre blade, though vendors will often use the term interchangeably for maraging).

If you've got dry sabres around, you can just put in a grounded socket and tape up or paint the interior of the guard. Ordering from Langenkamp will be the cheapest way to get the Uhlmann mask & lame.

-Dave

Inquartata · 06-26-2002, 09:32 PM

I shouldn't think you'd even need to insulate the inside of the guard, now that the lame cuff doesn't extend past the wrist. As long as the pommel is covered you ought to be good to go.

Also, it is possible to knock the rivets out of Allstar bells and remove the socket shanks. Then rivet on a new one ( or not ). If you can wire a foil you can do that...

counter riposte · 06-27-2002, 02:02 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by neevel:
I'm not sure that there'd be the same durability vs. cost benefet for maraging sabre blades as there is for foil and epee blades.

If you've got dry sabres around, you can just put in a grounded socket and tape up or paint the interior of the guard. Ordering from Langenkamp will be the cheapest way to get the Uhlmann mask & lame.

-Dave<hr /></blockquote>Have to agree with Dave, Electric Sabre equipment is kinda expensive, particularly the lame. However, the Electric Sabre weapon is cheaper than the others. All you have to do is add a bayonet/two prong socket (preferably one similar to your current body cord), paint the interior of your guard, and presto... Electric Sabre.

But until you are ready to go out and start competing in USFA competition, don't go out and get get S2000/FIE equipment. Go dry for a few months, and SLOWLY build up your equipment base.

Otherwise, start searching some of the suppliers for a reasonable electric starter set. Try American Fencers, <a href="http://www.amfence.com," target="_blank">www.amfence.com,</a> The Fencing Post, <a href="http://www.thefencingpost.com," target="_blank">www.thefencingpost.com,</a> or Triplette Competition Arms, <a href="http://www.triplette.com." target="_blank">www.triplette.com.</a> AFS and TCA have reasonable starter kits, and both give discounts to new members of the USFA. TFP has a 20% discount on e-mail orders... if you like Uhlmann (which I incidentally don't).

Good luck
-Counter riposte

edew · 06-27-2002, 03:23 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by counter riposte:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by neevel:
I'm not sure that there'd be the same durability vs. cost benefet for maraging sabre blades as there is for foil and epee blades.

If you've got dry sabres around, you can just put in a grounded socket and tape up or paint the interior of the guard. Ordering from Langenkamp will be the cheapest way to get the Uhlmann mask & lame.

-Dave<hr /></blockquote>Have to agree with Dave, Electric Sabre equipment is kinda expensive, particularly the lame. However, the Electric Sabre weapon is cheaper than the others. All you have to do is add a bayonet/two prong socket (preferably one similar to your current body cord), paint the interior of your guard, and presto... Electric Sabre.

But until you are ready to go out and start competing in USFA competition, don't go out and get get S2000/FIE equipment. Go dry for a few months, and SLOWLY build up your equipment base.

Otherwise, start searching some of the suppliers for a reasonable electric starter set. Try American Fencers, <a href="http://www.amfence.com," target="_blank">www.amfence.com,</a> The Fencing Post, <a href="http://www.thefencingpost.com," target="_blank">www.thefencingpost.com,</a> or Triplette Competition Arms, <a href="http://www.triplette.com." target="_blank">www.triplette.com.</a> AFS and TCA have reasonable starter kits, and both give discounts to new members of the USFA. TFP has a 20% discount on e-mail orders... if you like Uhlmann (which I incidentally don't).

Good luck
-Counter riposte<hr /></blockquote>Don't forget to short the sockets of your two-prong socket (one good reason to use two-prongs instead of bayonet). For bayonet socket, you need to solder a bare wire from the screw to the grounding metal.

On the other hand, bayonet plugs have that rubbery sleeve which, when smacked in sabre, won't be damaged as easily as the two-prong plugs.

AndrewH · 06-27-2002, 03:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by edew:
For bayonet socket, you need to solder a bare wire from the screw to the grounding metal.

On the other hand, bayonet plugs have that rubbery sleeve which, when smacked in sabre, won't be damaged as easily as the two-prong plugs.<hr /></blockquote>To avoid soldering wires, etc, (if you're using a bayonet socket), use the grounded kind made by Leon Paul which just "drops in" and is held in place by pressure. Far less work when it does break. However, while the bayonet plug may be less easily damaged than the 2-prong plug, I would still recommend 2-prong over bayonet for sabre use because the socket is more durable than bayonet sockets and, if damaged, the plug is more easily repaired (make sure you get the kind that can be taken apart).

neevel · 06-28-2002, 02:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by AndrewH:
To avoid soldering wires, etc, (if you're using a bayonet socket), use the grounded kind made by Leon Paul which just "drops in" and is held in place by pressure. Far less work when it does break. However, while the bayonet plug may be less easily damaged than the 2-prong plug, I would still recommend 2-prong over bayonet for sabre use because the socket is more durable than bayonet sockets and, if damaged, the plug is more easily repaired (make sure you get the kind that can be taken apart).<hr /></blockquote>You can ground bayonet sockets by bending the bracket open, removing the plastic base with the screw, putting a few appropriately-sized washers in to correctly space the spring, and then replacing the body and bend the bracket back. It's not technically soldering (as spelled out in the rules), but then popping out the plastic washer on a 2-prong isn't technically soldering, either.

Another quick-n-dirty trick that will function perfectly fine is to just connect a long length of bare wire to the screw and then wrap is many times around the bracket, wedging it up between the bottom of the plastic body and the bracket to keep it secure.

-Dave

edew · 06-28-2002, 03:04 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by neevel:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by AndrewH:
To avoid soldering wires, etc, (if you're using a bayonet socket), use the grounded kind made by Leon Paul which just "drops in" and is held in place by pressure. Far less work when it does break. However, while the bayonet plug may be less easily damaged than the 2-prong plug, I would still recommend 2-prong over bayonet for sabre use because the socket is more durable than bayonet sockets and, if damaged, the plug is more easily repaired (make sure you get the kind that can be taken apart).<hr /></blockquote>You can ground bayonet sockets by bending the bracket open, removing the plastic base with the screw, putting a few appropriately-sized washers in to correctly space the spring, and then replacing the body and bend the bracket back. It's not technically soldering (as spelled out in the rules), but then popping out the plastic washer on a 2-prong isn't technically soldering, either.

Another quick-n-dirty trick that will function perfectly fine is to just connect a long length of bare wire to the screw and then wrap is many times around the bracket, wedging it up between the bottom of the plastic body and the bracket to keep it secure.

-Dave<hr /></blockquote>All such methods (besides buying a sabre-ready bayonet socket) take a lot of time to do, compared to two-prong sockets. And, once done, require quite a bit of work to un-do. I have sockets primarily for foil. I'll trade them for sabre when needed, but other than that, I want to have the flexibility of using them for foil or sabre, with easy transformations.

neevel · 06-29-2002, 09:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by edew:
All such methods (besides buying a sabre-ready bayonet socket) take a lot of time to do, compared to two-prong sockets. And, once done, require quite a bit of work to un-do. I have sockets primarily for foil. I'll trade them for sabre when needed, but other than that, I want to have the flexibility of using them for foil or sabre, with easy transformations.[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>No disagreement there-- two prong is much easer to ground, and much less likely to have problems with the socket. Since my club is already heavily invested in bayonet cords, however, I've had to ground a lot of bayo sockets for club weapons ( there are other things to spend the money on besides switching to 2-prong). I do recommend that all sabre fencers getting their own gear go with 2-prong.