Washing an infinity lame

[Zara_athlen]

Hi all,

My Infinity lame which is only a few months old barely passed at my last tournament. I believe it was exactly at 5 OHMS all around the lame. I always air out the lame after I use it, but I was wonder if washing it would help bring back some conductivity?

My next question is how exactly should I wash it? I've heard put some windex or ammonia based cleaner on it, and then rinse it with cold water. Is this the correct procedure to follow?

Thank you all in advance for your help.

[TooLoftheDeviL]

I put my lames on a hanger, run them under the shower water for a while, and then just hang it on the bar to dry. Works well enough for me. My roomate did the same thing with his Infinity sabre lame.

[CvilleFencer]

As TOTD said, this is how I handle my lame. It is a cheap Blade SS lame and is going into its 3rd year. You may also try washing it in the sink using a bit of amonia, but since the Infinity lames are not metal I am not sure how much it would help. I try to take mine into the shower at least once a week.

[Zara_athlen]

can you do this with all lames even ones that say non-washable? (Like the PBT foil lame)? http://www.fencepbt.com/pbthome3.nsf/95cbbee954d9ca7f85256d8500133fb6/ba2ac2da9afd22be85256d8500152442!OpenDocument

[CvilleFencer]

Yes you can. I am not sure what makes a stainless steel lame unwashable in the eyes of some manufacturers (except for marketing value that is). I have yet to find a lames that I would through in the washer and dryer but I have never see one that could not be rinsed off in the shower or hand washed. Even the uber cheap BG copper lames can benefit from a good rinsing.

[Wraith]

I use an infinity foil lame, and I have found that the easiest way to clean it is to just throw it in the washing machine on a delicate cycle with normal laundry detergent (don't use bleach or anything), then letting it air dry. I've been doing this for about a year, and the conductivity is as good as when I bought it.

[dekko]

Perhaps this question is in the wrong section. The armourers in this country seem to tell anyone who will listen that the Infinity lame 'isn't legal for tournament use' for some random reason or another. However, I seem to recall the USA had a fencer win a gold medal wearing one. Interesting!!!

Guess the international amouring folks seem to allow a lame that the US folks look down on. Very interesting!!

Anyway, as I recall, the lame can be either hand washed or go throw the delicate cyle of the wahser machine then hung dry, as mentioned before. If this process gives you concern then the warm water in the shower after a spraying of a cleaner or your choice should make it good again.

However, good luck passing it at a national event with the US armourers.

[Peach]

The Infinity passes at national events. Even though the open mesh on the inside technicaly could disqualify it (due to the possibility of scoring on a wet non-target portion of the uniform if you sweat a lot), and a qualified armorer may warn you of this technical possibility, it has been accepted at national and international competitions since it was first produced.

The manufacturer (Jeff Salmon) suggests washing it in a normal delicate washing machine cycle with normal detergent and drying it in a dryer. In fact, when my first two Infinity lames started going a little dead, he suggested putting them in a hot dryer.

Because they tend to fray, however, you may want to air-dry them or oversew the seams to reinforce them.

[neevel]

Originally Posted by dekko

Perhaps this question is in the wrong section. The armourers in this country seem to tell anyone who will listen that the Infinity lame 'isn't legal for tournament use' for some random reason or another. However, I seem to recall the USA had a fencer win a gold medal wearing one. Interesting!!!

Guess the international amouring folks seem to allow a lame that the US folks look down on. Very interesting!!

Anyway, as I recall, the lame can be either hand washed or go throw the delicate cyle of the wahser machine then hung dry, as mentioned before. If this process gives you concern then the warm water in the shower after a spraying of a cleaner or your choice should make it good again.

However, good luck passing it at a national event with the US armourers.

Dekko-

I don't know where you had this experience, but I have never seen any armorer at a NAC or World Cup refuse to pass an Infinity lame just based on the design. Mariel's lame certainly passed at the Team World Championships in NY this last June, where I was Chief of Control, and Dan DeChaine was SEMI rep. Yes, by the letter of the FIE rules the perforated liner is technically not kosher, but SEMI has specifically ruled that this is permissible. You may have heard armorers commenting that it doesn't meet the precise wording of the rules, but they will pass them unless there is a problem (conductivity, holes, loose seams).

-Dave

[Torg]

it was mentioned that the infinity lames are not metal... in that case, what are they made out of? the only other common thing i can think of off the top of my head that conducts are electrolytes (like salt) when dissolved in water. last time i checked lames were solid.

[TooLoftheDeviL]

Originally Posted by From M. 24

The sleeves of the conductive jacket must be fixed at the wrist by means of an elastic band.

I know the one I'm looking at doesn't have this feature. Has this changed? If not, maybe the rule should be a bit less specific about the wrist fastening?

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by Torg

it was mentioned that the infinity lames are not metal... in that case, what are they made out of? the only other common thing i can think of off the top of my head that conducts are electrolytes (like salt) when dissolved in water. last time i checked lames were solid.

They are made out of a metalized film, as are some of the new Leon Paul lames. Since they are not metal, in theory they should not tarnish or corrode but they still get dirty.

They are very light and breathable and seem to last about as long as a normal lame if they are maintained. You can read about them on these websites. While they are both theoretically washable, it just seems wrong to me to toss them in the washer though... Not saying it does not work or is bad for them, it just seems wrong. I guess I am getting old...

http://www.infinityelectronics.com/products.html
http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Foil_Lame.html

[neevel]

Infinity uses a metallized mesh fabric made by Marktek, a Missouri company that makes materials for EM shielding applications. It's a fabric that has been impregnated with fine particles of a silver/nickel alloy.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by TooLoftheDeviL

I know the one I'm looking at doesn't have this feature. Has this changed? If not, maybe the rule should be a bit less specific about the wrist fastening?

would an armourer care to comment on this?
it does appear to make infinity lames not conform to the rules in more than one instance?

[neevel]

Originally Posted by noodle

would an armourer care to comment on this?
it does appear to make infinity lames not conform to the rules in more than one instance?

The manchette, which goes over the end of the sleeve on the weapon hand, has elastic.

-Dave

[noodle]

ok i get it now. but the rule is kind of ambiguous.
i read it as the sleeves have to be fixed by an elastic band which is a part of the jacket.

edited to add: it says sleeve, not "just the weapon arm". plus, its part of the jacket material rule, no? implies part of jacket?

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by neevel

The manchette, which goes over the end of the sleeve on the weapon hand, has elastic.

-Dave

Some do, some don't.

What if you don't fence sabre? ( Oh, that I should have to ask such a question! But some people are inexplicable. )

Even if you do fence sabre, doesn't the rule say "sleeves", plural?

[dekko]

Neevel,

You are fighting a losing battle here. When this lame was first sold Jeff told me about the problems the armourers had with it and they at first would not pass it. Through many discussions it was finally allowed, sort of, but only with certain folks behind the table. Then they, the armourers, made it very clear they reluctantly allowed it for use at our national events but no body better try and take to an international event or they will get laughed out fo the gym. Now, we see an american win a gold medal wearing it.

Bottomline, you guys and girls have some real explaining to do. First this lame then the whole sabre cuff issue. First a cuff with no extra material on the hand was allowed then all of the sudden we have to get new cuffs with the that stupid whote material over the hand. You guys worried about the infinity lame possibly making the target area bigger due to someone sweating now you make us have a cuff that does the same thing. Companies who have their equipment made overseas have to have the special USA cuff and the real cuff. Now, finally, in the last year or so the aroumers have finally come around and allowed the cuff without the nonconductive materail to be used at national events. Why the change? Did the word get out about what was being used in international events and now you folks need to save face? Now you mention how sabre lames need to have elastic on the wrist. the Santelli sabre lame doesn't. They make a great product but, by your post, is illegal but it still gets passed. Why? You folks have some questions to answer and it seems that none of you have the guts to come forward and answer these questions. Will you be the first or will you blast me for asking the questions?

Well?

[CvilleFencer]

Dekko, why are you attacking Neevel? He was just trying to answer your question. Nobody is perfect and since the international fencing scene/organizing groups are so spread out when something new pops up it takes a while for people to get the word. If you want to be pissed at anyone be pissed at the FIE/USFA for not getting info out to the armorers in a mass mailing or some other type of format or for not cleaning up the rules to use new technology and methods.

US armorers don't really have anything to explain. They could ban all the current masks in use for foil if they wanted to just by following the exact letter of the rules, and it would not be their fault. The fact that they are willing to make exceptions to the letter of the rules shows that they are using good judgement/common sense and not "out to get fencers" as you seem to imply. Also, decaf can really be just as tasty as regular coffee. You should really think about it...

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by dekko

Neevel,

You are fighting a losing battle here. When this lame was first sold Jeff told me about the problems the armourers had with it and they at first would not pass it. Through many discussions it was finally allowed, sort of, but only with certain folks behind the table. Then they, the armourers, made it very clear they reluctantly allowed it for use at our national events but no body better try and take to an international event or they will get laughed out fo the gym. Now, we see an american win a gold medal wearing it.

Bottomline, you guys and girls have some real explaining to do. First this lame then the whole sabre cuff issue. First a cuff with no extra material on the hand was allowed then all of the sudden we have to get new cuffs with the that stupid whote material over the hand. You guys worried about the infinity lame possibly making the target area bigger due to someone sweating now you make us have a cuff that does the same thing. Companies who have their equipment made overseas have to have the special USA cuff and the real cuff. Now, finally, in the last year or so the aroumers have finally come around and allowed the cuff without the nonconductive materail to be used at national events. Why the change? Did the word get out about what was being used in international events and now you folks need to save face? Now you mention how sabre lames need to have elastic on the wrist. the Santelli sabre lame doesn't. They make a great product but, by your post, is illegal but it still gets passed. Why? You folks have some questions to answer and it seems that none of you have the guts to come forward and answer these questions. Will you be the first or will you blast me for asking the questions?

Well?

I will try, but I do not understand most of the questions you seem to be attempting to ask. The Infinity lame did not follow the rules, so they were rejected. When the FIE, stated they could be used at the fencers risk. This has been done in the past. After 1984, if a fencer ignored M.13 and brought a Foil in that was not taped, it would be allowed.

Remember it is not the Armorers who allow someone to not have a manchette. That is the referees, who may not know the rules.

Could you explain your paragraph statements about a special USA cuff. I will tell you some equipment that I see that has pass mark, I wonder how they pass. I tell them to fix it. For example, Uhlmann Lame. I have failed so many that have been passed and brand new, that I stop counting, because of the lack of a proper tab on the back.

Could you reword that paragraph and I will respond.