Business Plan

[Joe biebel]

Does anyone have a Salle business plan that they would be willing to share?
I'm sure with a great deal of time and effort, we could come up with a workable plan, with workable numbers, but many already have good working models, that they may be willing to share.

It's pretty obvious that a club needs to be financially healthy in order to produce quality fencing over time. Which clubs would you say are "healthy" financially, as an example to shoot for?

Joe Biebel

[esskreemr]

You may be better off looking at a combination of fitness club and Martial Arts dojo business plans and reapplying the techniques and expenditures to a fencing specific model. The insurance needs would probably be more than a Fitness club (contact sport) but not as much as a Martial Arts Dojo (greater contact sport).

I'm hoping to be able to look at the same needs in a couple of years...

[JEC]

see your email.

[lochinvar]

JEC, could you email to me, also? I've been kicking around the idea of opening a salle...

[edew]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

You may be better off looking at a combination of fitness club and Martial Arts dojo business plans and reapplying the techniques and expenditures to a fencing specific model. The insurance needs would probably be more than a Fitness club (contact sport) but not as much as a Martial Arts Dojo (greater contact sport).

I'm hoping to be able to look at the same needs in a couple of years...

Thanks to USFA's insurance program for clubs, the insurance needs for fencing is so much smaller than for probably anything else in the world (of insurance).

BTW, a business plan basically is a hypothetical income-expense statement explaining how much money is expected to be coming in (presumably through classes and lessons and whatever else) and how much money is expected to be going out (presumably wages, rent, utilities and equipment).

As in most things in life, the major uncertainties are in the revenue side. Rent, wages, equipment, etc., are fairly firm and constant every month. Capital expenses like putting in a new room, repainting the wall, putting in a new floor, etc., can be amortized over several years if need be.

Oh, one additional expense to account for: fees and taxes.

[JEC]

Let me clarify that:

a) I have never opened or ran a salle.
b) A business is a business. A great salle is not necessarily a great business.
c) I emailed Joe with the name of another person who has done that in several occasions with different results. He might have learned the do's and do not's.
d) I have been around for last 7 years and visited over 30 different salles in different places in the US. As an amateur businessman, I have seen a series of mistakes and excellent decisions with repercussions.

These are some of my observations:

a) You need to be honest about time, space, and costs
b) If you have a club, survey your members about how much are they willing to pay, and whether they want an annual or semester fee or not, initiation fee, lessons, etc.
c) Business that are run best start with a core of interested and committed people. Fencing is a very difficult business that barely allows you to make a living from. The key of successful salles is to have a stream of beginners through camps and advertisement, while providing an after-school day-care environment for them to do homework. These are the customers who pay most of the fees.
d) An alternative model is the fencing club in borrowed space: a gym, a school, etc. Then, the bigger club expense "rent" is covered.
e) Start with a low budget and then build on your success. Do not hire a top coach who you can not pay.
f) Have monthly re-assessment of achieving the business goals.
Are you advertising in the local school district for a beginner summer camp to hook up kids into the sport?
g) Have long open hours catered to different segments: kids, teenagers, adults.
h) Have at least one good fencing coach.

[lochinvar]

How about a "traveling" salle? Schlepping the equipment from place to place--rec centers, schools (phys ed offerings), fitness gyms, etc.

What would people feel the potential for such an operation be? The equipment outlays would be the same, but the rent/utilities expense would be covered by the "hosting" institution...

Just a thought. Comments?

[edew]

I've seen some "salles" that are of the traveling variety. Ther benefit is the low cost (no rental fees). However, the work is more ornery and there's less opportunity for the students to improve (because they don't have opportunities to fence for a long time). The students will also have a flighty nature as well, since there's no permanence in your product, there's no sense of permanence in their loyalty.

Maximizing one's stream of income is the main goal. Find different ways to bring people in. That might be co-opting with an athletic center, work with parks and rec, work with schools, and so forth. I feel, from personal (and anecdotal) evidence that newspaper ads bring in the least bang for the buck. Even a cheapie ad in the yellow pages would be more beneficial than newspaper ads.

However, newspaper ads do make some sense of legitimacy for the business (despite a number of totally corrupt businesses that put ads in the paper). So the benefit of newspaper ads is primarily for brand recognition, if there's such a need.

I would NOT survey what your customers are willing to pay. If you ask, they'll say $1/lesson or free. Base your fees on what is the going rate for their interest. If laser tag is $20/hr, then maybe $25/day is a reasonable charge for a 1 hour class for fencing. Charge high. That's the one main message I've always see in marketing and business books. Charging too low is worse than charging too high. One can always negotiate down from a high price point, but it's virtually impossible to negotiate up from a low price point. Bringing in a new coach or offering a different program is always an opportunity to charge higher, if one made a mistake of charging too low.

(How does one know if one charged too low? When the fencer or the parent says, "Ok, so that's $525 for the equipment. The yearly membership fee is $400? Ok, who do I make the check out to?")

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by edew

(How does one know if one charged too low? When the fencer or the parent says, "Ok, so that's $525 for the equipment. The yearly membership fee is $400? Ok, who do I make the check out to?")

That's silly. Some people can afford that and others can't. So should you charge a price that is so high that the fencer or the parent has to think twice about if they want to go for it or not?

I have never heard of anyone trying to bargin down fencing costs. Either they can afford it or they can't It's not a swap meet. By charging a little less for private lessons you might find yourself having twice the amount of students. Same with classes.

I guess it depends on how famous of a fencer you are or were. It helps if you have competed internationally. I have seen some coaches who have never even held a ranking charge $25 for lessons. That's BS! I also don't care much for coaches who are out of shape or too old. If you can't do the move then you can't teach the move.

[Schiavona]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

I guess it depends on how famous of a fencer you are or were. It helps if you have competed internationally. I have seen some coaches who have never even held a ranking charge $25 for lessons. That's BS! I also don't care much for coaches who are out of shape or too old. If you can't do the move then you can't teach the move.

Why do you think this? There are many coaches in many sports that 'can't do the move' and yet produce results. There is so very much more to coaching/teaching than being able to do the move-like knowing when to do the move. I won't call your attitude moronic, but I see it as a relic from the days when a fencing teacher/coach needed a 'reputation' in order to make a living. The USFA lists something like 1400 club memberships, the USFCA lists 40 Masters. Do the math.

I'd rather take a lesson from a 60 year old coach who has been fencing/coaching for 40 years than from a 20 year old Olympic Champion who has been fencing for 7 years.

[Mergs]

My experience with starting organizations has been, first of all decide what kind of club/salle you want to be. Obviously if you are asking for a business plan, then you want to be a for-profit organization. Probably the most successful business salle that I've been associated with started out as a "You Call, We Haul" organization that went from facility to facility (and still does even after establishing a permanent facility) to teach beginner level courses at schools, rec centers, etc. The key, of course is consistancy. You HAVE to be open when you say you are, which means having several instructors.

The pre-supposes that you recognize that you are going to have about 75 - 80% of the folks coming through your doors that are "tire kickers", gee I've always wanted to do this.....and do for two lessons and find out they aren't Eroll Flynn right off the bat and leave. But hey, you've got their money for the full X number of classes.

Plan for growth. And for the evenutal closure of the business. As with most small companies when the founder and driving force finally peters out (either retires or dies, well, I guess the second is a form of the first) the business goes under because there is no one to pickup and carry the torch. Or maybe not.

Also, remember to run an ethical, open and honest business. One of the problems with one of the larger clubs I've been associated with is the fact that there have been ethical questions, especially concerning what appeared to be favoritism in prices. Be consistent, but also have ways of letting folks that are dedicated, but can't afford the full amount, compete for "scholarships" or fellowships or whatever else you want to call them.

But most of all, know your market and what you can reasonably be able to offer. Don't promise to make olympians out of kids when you are barely past intermediate skill levels yourself.

The example of the Martial Arts Studios and Dojo's is an excellent example to follow.

Best of luck.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

I have seen some coaches who have never even held a ranking charge $25 for lessons. That's BS!

Joe Pechinsky at Tanner City Fencer's Club in Peabody, MA.

Granted he doesn't charge $25 for lessons (in fact he doesn't charge for lessons). I believe he was never a competitive fencer in his own right (and therefore would never have a ranking (or more accurately for what you're probably trying to say, a rating)), but he trained fencers on every US Olympic team 1968-1992. Think his lessons would be worth the $25 that he doesn't charge?

Being a high-level competitive fencer is NOT a pre-requisite for being a good coach. Being a high-level competitive fencer is NOT a guarantee that one will be a good coach. Judge a coach on his/her coaching, not his/her fencing.

-B :)

[edew]

Completely agree, oiuyt. Here in the Bay Area, we have some famous fencers-turned-coaches. And we have some formerly highly rated fencers turned coaches. And we have some nobody-when-they-were-fencers who are now coaches. There's no correlation among their coaching skills with their fencing skills. Some just do a good job in making good fencers, some don't.

I'm certainly not going to name names, but all of us in the Bay Area know who are the decent coaches and who aren't.

Also, as it pertains to the business plan, a good (as in training and results) coach need not be a key factor in making a successful business. 90% of the business is revenue generation and cost containment. Heck, I think it's 100%. Being good at drumming up business and holding down cost is what makes for a successful business, not being a good coach. Of course, having some skills as a coach so that you're not seen as a charlatan is part of the "drumming up business".

[fluidfencer]

First, read all the previous posts again. They contain some good advice, even when they disagree.

I wanted to re-emphasize a few points:

1. Decide what kind of club you want to be, and how many students you can accomodate, and how much time you can devote to teaching, and who can help, and what financial resources you can commit up front. Like someone else said, be realistic. Don't think you can hold a full-time job, help raise a family, and run a professional club with classes every night in your "free time" to make some money on the side. The internet makes all this SO much easier than in the past. visit LOTS of webs sites to see what other clubs have done.

2. Be conservative with you finances, but generous with your time, if your goal is to grow. LOTS of upfront demonstrations and promotion is required. Use free resources, like getting your story in the newspaper and getting in local "community calendars". Start off as cheaply as possible and only build when you are fairly confident you have the fencers/numbers/dollars to take the next step. You will likely need $2,000 for beginning equipment and various start-up expenses. Rec center classes -> cheap location -> better location -> permanent location and this process can take ten years. Our club is in about year six (since our coaches have been here). Be patient. Also know that growth/money will occur more slowly than expected... probably much more slowly.

3. Contact other clubs for guidance on schedules / class format / fees but look at cities that are similar in size. Keep in mind the difference between the objectives of the other clubs and how that matches with your own objectives. Our club is run as a business, so we look at other similar clubs for pricing. Free lessons and $25/month classes won't pay the bills. Maybe even find a mentor... Northern Colorado Fencers have been a model for us (a professional club, mid-size market, desire for strong national competitors as one goal which means strong coaches, about 3,000 square foot salle).

4. That core group of committed volunteers is important, but that is so specific to each club. We were very lucky to have four or so very committed people during the early years. Now we have 80 in the club and lots more people who are willing/able to help. It wasn't easy before that point though. It can be a tricky transition as well... but that's another story.

Best of luck!

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by Schiavona

I'd rather take a lesson from a 60 year old coach who has been fencing/coaching for 40 years than from a 20 year old Olympic Champion who has been fencing for 7 years.

I would rather learn from the 20 year old since he can show me how to do the moves rather than just try to explain what the move should look like. You prefer quantity over quality then you go for that. I don't

[striker]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Joe Pechinsky at Tanner City Fencer's Club in Peabody, MA.
Being a high-level competitive fencer is NOT a pre-requisite for being a good coach. Being a high-level competitive fencer is NOT a guarantee that one will be a good coach. Judge a coach on his/her coaching, not his/her fencing.

-B

A few months ago, I was talking to a coach who is a certified provost
and I am sure a descent fencing coach. He said one of the first questions that
some of his fencers or the parents of the fencers ask him is the following:
"What are some of your accomplishments in competitive fencing ?"
He told me that he has a hard time convincing people that a person who has
never held a descent ranking in any competitive fencing will make a good
coach.

I agree that being a good competitive fencer does not mean that
you can be a successful coach. However, I also believe that having some
sort of competitive fencing ranking, or having some association with the
Olympics team will greatly enhance a person's credibility. This gives the
impression that the coach will do a great job in coaching (not that he can actually be a great coach).

Take a look at the web sites of some of the fencing clubs. Competitive
credentials is the first thing that is mentioned in the coach's biography.

[edew]

Certainly, successful competitive results should be utilized for image and marketing. But the record clearly shows that the top coaches in the US have never been top competitors.

Gary Copeland: who's he as a competitor? He even admitted to me that he was the suckiest fencer. Couldn't do anything that he teaches his fencers to do.

Buckie Leach: uh...ah...won a few tournies here and there?

Nat Goodhartz: gee...um, nope. Never saw her in any results pages, at least not as a fencer.

Gene Gettler: same thing

One of the top coaches I recall when I was younger was Tom DiCerbo at Masters Fencing Academy in NJ. Was just another fencer. But as a coach, one of the most promising coaches and delivered top fencers top and again. Too bad he passed away in 1997.

The Blake bros in NE: ok fencers, I believe. Got a gold medalist at the Summer Nationals.

Dan Tibbetts: so-so fencer (at best). Single-handedly created the youth group in CenCal Division.

Connie Yu: created a bunch of great fencers from scratch.

We can also go to the flip side: top fencers who are now coaching and who are their students. I'd rather not name names, but I think people can come up with several top former fencers who have not produced as expected.

Of course, that doesn't mean 100% inverse coorelation. There are top fencers who have produced as coaches: Michael Marx, Elaine Cheris, David Littell.

But, since newbies don't know the lack of correlation between fencing as a competitor and fencing as a coach, if one has a strong competitive history, it's certainly worthwhile and smart to emphasize that in any informational literature.

The best, however, would be to emphasize competitive results of the students, but that's not possible for a new business.

[random fencer p]

Good luck setting up your place, what ever you decide to do.

2 things though:

1. Do not use the TWD or other martial arts as a model as they have a more corporate style backing. The national organizations of these sports do often help co-sign leases, get coaches, and advertise. They also burn through kids like no other. How many kids fence now who used to participate in a martial art? You may put your hands down now.

2. From what I have seen the USFA insurance package is great. Seems to be just over $200 per year for enough coverage, in some cases more, for a place someone may want to sign a lease. Out of all the things people complain about the USFA this seems to not be on that list. They have nailed this one.

Only real adivce anyone can give to help you is run it as a business not a sport. Just as any other business you work hard, get the word out(however that may be), and run a good/clean place you will be successful. Not sure national results are paramont to parents who want their kid being coached or mentored by someone. They will most likely go for someone who treats them well, respectful but also firm in the class or lesson and the parents will approve. Last thing, keep your equipment clean. I have seem several clubs around this country that do not keep their club equipment very clean and the kids and parents notice.

Good Luck.

[Schiavona]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

I would rather learn from the 20 year old since he can show me how to do the moves rather than just try to explain what the move should look like. You prefer quantity over quality then you go for that. I don't

You ARE some kid, aren't you RL. *shaking head sadly* You have your ideas reversed, you'll learn this when you grow up.