Bouting advice

[raymac]

ive been fencing for 1 day now (1x 1/2 hour class, 2x 2 hour open trainings, an open house. 5 hours total) and i was fencing a nationally ranked epee fencer at Epic. i believe his name is Andrew Aubin, hes around 6'3" while i stand around 5'5". when i was bouting with him 1 of 3 things would happen; i attack and because of his reach and point control he finds the opening and scores a touch, or i keep my guard steady and he fleches into it with an astonishingly heavy swordarm. when he fleches me i can parry it (he called it a circular parry, my beat isnt strong enough to change the trajectory of his blade), but it does give him a distance advantage and often a touch. the third happens alot less frequently, he attacks and i manage to duck/jump/bend around his attack and score a touch, although im sure when he does this its because of lack of effort. Now that I think about it, there were a few double touches as well, leaving the final score around 35-7.

also note that im still using ball tipped dry foils in class, so im not exquisitely familiar with epee (which i only use at open training).

[wflaschka]

In the university fencing club, I've been working with the new epee fencers. We did a few weeks of footwork and drills, and then group lessons. Here's what I've noticed about the new epee fencers, when we finally hooked up 2 practices ago and started bouting:

- They are not very handy with making blade solutions (parries, binds) in a bouting situation. Solution: Work the feet more, add 25% to distance, and burn a lot of energy keeping attacking fencers out of distance. (Until they get the hand stuff going.)

- They keep the weapon too close to the body. Solution: Let the hand float out in front, a little further than might seem reasonable (but keep the elbow bent some).

- They start attacks with the chest rather than the hand, e.g., when they attack it originates from their torso as they lean forward, take some steps, and then move the hand. Solution: Hand first, always.

- They show a lot of wrist, it's easy to hit them on the arm. Solution: Have them take the guard in front of a mirror, so they can see what they're showing. Technical solution, have them fix the broken wrist.

- They are too "closed in" and upright. Solution: The culprit is the legs not being bent enough, but it won't work to merely tell them to sit down. Tell them to "open up" and get "big as a house," with the hand floating in front and the torso relaxed -- the natural result is to sit down in the guard position more.

That's what I noticed with our guys. Hopefully one or two of these things might help you out!

[JEC]

Walter,
We should add some of this advice for the epee I. Email me if you want to elaborate.
Jose

[ReverseLunge]

Its way too early for this. You need to learn much much more before you worry about this stuff. This is not the time to beat or even fence others. This is the time to get your form right.

[Epeecurean]

That's what I noticed with our guys. Hopefully one or two of these things might help you out!

Great advice Walter! I would add that since the blade technique isn't there yet for blade solutions (being usually too big & wild), beginning epeeists should focus on thrusting technique, i.e. sticking your arm out at an inconvenient time for your opponent! If you can work the distance, keep the attacker and stick your arm out at the right time, you will become much, much harder to beat than you try too much stuff with the blade.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

The very best piece of advice for fencing that I can give you came from my coach. Here it is. Lead with the tip. That means start the attack by moving the tip of your weapon into place. Everything starts with the tip of the weapon.

[Victor]

As was noted above, "winning" a practice bout at this level (just a few days?!) isn't all that useful compared with learning good form and core skills. Be patient and focus on building a solid base, and the successful touches will take care of themselves with experience.

[mackillian]

You've just been fencing one day and they let you do open fencing and use an epee?

[dmitri]

At this point you should be working on form and learning basic foundations correctly to avoid bad habits.

I have a girl at the club who has not even been fencing for a month, I dont even think she should compete but her father is pushing her to compete, and I just dont get it. Lets throw the girl to the lions.

(If my english seems sloppy I am in the process of learning, please feel free to correct me)

[raymac]

Well, first of all my bladework isn't really typical, I've stood in the mirror and when I fence I focus on keeping my blade in front of me, as oppose to side to side or wild swinging. I said that I'm still in beginning foil, maybe I should mention I took a 2 month course at Brock university in St.Catherines, Ontario, Canada involving introductory foil before I moved to the Calgary area. When you're at open training you practice anything you want, thus the word open really does carry the meaning implied.

I'm not in any respect a beginning epeeist, I'm not a beginning anything really. If i had to place my progress right now, I would say my lunge form needs some work, I instep slightly when doing backwards footwork, I tense my shoulder a bit too much when I extend, and my knowledge of bouting is similar to someone sitting down to their first game of chess after reading a book on it.

Of course I didn't expect to win when I fenced some of the nationally ranked people at my club, but the way to improve the fastest is to compete against people better than you. I feel I'm at the point where I don't have to worry about developing bad habits when bouting, however I realize I am far far far from perfect form/footwork etc. in many respects.

I trust Leslie's judgement, and I think if he felt bouting at this point was detrimental to my development as a fencer, he would advise against it, and it wouldn't be a problem for me to accept that. Alot of the time I'm not really bouting anyway, but practising footwork, form, and doing alot of point control. Often I just sit and watch the other fencers, and see what works in what situations.

You have to keep in mind there's 5 other people in my class, 4 of which are 6-7 year old boys, and there's one girl whos around 12. Having quite the advantage, bouting for a while at the end of class doesn't help me much, which is why I go to open training. I fence the girl primarily, as the little ones are much better off fencing among themselves.

Also, I do (try to) lead with the tip. Not that I extend textbook-style, however I don't do the kick/stab lunge either. Aubin has such an incredible reach on me, it reminds me of the Lennox Lewis vs Tyson match, he just jabbed him and danced out of range (don't think this is a knock at his skill, if we were the same size he would still beat me, out of knowledge and experience, I'm just saying his reach gives me some trouble).

wflaschka, excellent advice. I appreciate every bit of it, and will attempt to put it into use even though im not a beginning epee fencer