Italian grip

[deadmonk]

Greetings. For the last couple of years I have been fencing SCA because
1. I like rapier and dagger and
2. That’s all there is around here anyway.
But, a new sport fencing club has opened up not too far from here. They are very much, and unashamedly, about “clicking the button”. That’s ok with me. I figure there is much to be learned from any kind of sword work; from electric foil to stage Claymor.
Naturally, non of my old dry sport fencing weapons are of much use there. So I used one of their foils. All they have is pistol grips. I expected to be uncomfortable with it. I did not expect to despise it as much as I do. I can not describe how uncomfortable, unnatural, how hideously and organically _wrong_ that thing felt in my hand. After an hour of fencing with that, that...... _thing_ in my hand, I went out to my van, picked up my Italian grip foil and shadow fenced for a while just to prove to myself that I did indeed know what a sword was supposed to feel like. I felt much better after.
Now I know most sport fencers use the pistol grip, so for most fencers, it must be a good thing. I am not “most fencers”. I am built far more like a football lineman than a fencer. I have short legs, wide shoulders, big wide feet, and XXL hands. I tend to pick things up and move them aside rather than step around them. Surprisingly, I seem to do rather well at most kinds of fencing I have tried (compared to those at the same training level as myself). So I am wondering if perhaps my strong preference for the Italian grip from the first time I held one does not have something to do with my build; tall, lanky, Nadia looking guys liking pistol grips and those of my build perhaps being disposed to the Italian grip. Any other neadatal’s out there uncomfortable with the pistol?
My other concern is, at the club, they told me the Italian grip has been banned in the USFA. I read through the rules and don’t see it. I’m thinking it is the same confusion that was going around when last I fenced sport. Can anyone confirm authoritatively that I can still use the Italian grip, and can I use the wrist strap with it?
I’d also appreciate if anyone could let me know where I could get an Italian grip for my Italian epee blade I bought from “the Fencing Post” a few years back when they were still promising to have the grips “any day now” but never did.
Thanks

[It]

Italians and straps are all legal in USFA compitions. There are a couple of topics about it if you'd look a little. I use both. And I've seen another fencer out in Orange County use an Italian foil and a strap too!

[lochinvar]

As It says, both the Italian and the wrist strap are legal. There are, indeed, many threads on this board dealing with both these topics. (Do a search; it shouldn't take long for you to find them.) I know neither how these misconceptions form in the first place nor why they persist so tenaciously, but they do and they do...c'est la vie.

Though I'm not as large as you seem to describe yourself, I also have XXL hands--my palms are as wide as they are long, and my fingers are relatively short and wide, also. And I've learned two general things about pistol grips:
1) Visconti grips (even the largest ones) are too small for my hands to grip comfortably. The projections that are supposed to fit between the fingers don't fit between mine.
2) Visconti grips are 90% of the pistol grips out there, because they suit 90% of sport fencers.

So, if you were using someone else's weapon, chances are overwhelming that you were using a Visconti grip--which does indeed feel completely unnatural in large hands (or at least it does in mine).

My suggestion is to try a Russian grip (the largest one you can find, preferably) before you dismiss pistol grips altogether. In the meantime, stick with the Italian--there's nothing illegal about it, and you should fence with what makes you comfortable.

As for where you can get Italian epee grips, I'd suggest American Fencers Supply. They seem to have the largest selection of "exotic" grips.

[neevel]

One practical issue with Italian foils at the moment is that France Lames has been the only producer of Italian-type blades for the last few years. With FL now having suspended operations at least temporarily, there may be a spell where true-ricasso blades are scarce (and FL non-maraging blades are pretty short-lived, as well).

Orthopedic grips come in a variety of shapes and sizes, to fit different hands. Iochinvar's suggestion of a Russian as a 'transitional' grip is good. Negrini also makes a super-large visconti, which can be bought from Santelli. Keep in mind that orthopedic grips should be held very loosely-- if anything, even more loosely than a French grip.

-Dave

[Bebop and Rocksteady]

Meh. I fenced for a while with a whole bunch of orthopedic grips, but I just didn't like them, other than the Belgium. I use the italian grip, I like the security of the grip, and the fact that you now have 3 fingers manipulating the weapon, as opposed to 2 fingers with the french and orthopedic.

Ultimately, however, using the italian grip will not make you a good fencer, nor will an orthopedic grip make you a bad one. In the end, all that matters is your ability to use whatever weapon you use to your potential. I've seen people with french grips who had the worst point control I've ever seen.

Oh yeah, and you can get italian foils and epees from <a href="http://www.negrini.com," target="_blank">www.negrini.com,</a> but just avoid their sabres. They look like plastic toys...
<img src="http://www.negrini.com/514S.jpg" alt=" - " />

[swordsen]

Interestingly enought the FL Italian style blades seem to last just fine. I used them for quite awhile before a hand injury forced to other grips. They hold up just fine. Of course I suspect that the FL blade problem depends extensivly on how you use it. I am not a power fencer and they work as well as any other for me.

[D'Artagnan1673]

I've tried a few styles of pistol grips ranging from Belgian, Russian, Spanish and occasionally visconti.

After using these grips, I will continue to fence with my French weapon.

Neevel is right about the FL Italian blades. They are poorly made and not even made at the moment. I guess someone with exceptional distance could fence regularly with a FL blade and not ruin it.

The grip will not make or break a fencer, it all depends upon their training and profficiency with their weapon. Bebop's seen horrible point control on Frenchies, and I've seen horrible point control with pistols. I use what I am comfortable with and will continue to do so until I see a valid reason to switch to that "monstrous broode"