Real Sticky Situation

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Ok, I fence at a Ghetto fencing class on wednesdays. Its cheap, the quality isnt real good, but its for kids who dont have alot of income or are just starting fencing and dont want to cough cash yet. Well, I'm the best and most experienced in the class (of 18 people) and the teacher has me working with the more inexperienced people, teaching the newbies basic footwork, bladework, and occasionally giving lessons. The problem is that I am not getting any challenge, or learning, so I'm wondering if its worth it. I would like to be paid, but the class doesnt have enough money to pay me. I enjoy coaching, but and most coaches do, but I like money also. I'm doing most of the work and getting no pay.... what should I do?

[telkanuru]

I too quickly learned all the stuff my coach taught, and she put me to teaching others. My progress then basically stagnated for four years or so (the duration of my existance on my HS team). I was in effect using USFA tourneys as practices, so that I could fence people better than myself, since there weren't any at club. However, when I *did* get around to having money to pay floor fees at Prise de Fer, my ability has increased in the past 3 months double what it has over the past four years. This is not from taking lessons, this is from fencing people better than myself. Sure, I probably need lessons at some point, but this is definitely better than naught.

The storal of my mory? It is imperative for you to fence new/better people often for you to improve. No ifs/ands/buts.

[Mo]

Ok, I fence at a Ghetto fencing class on wednesdays.
I would like to be paid, but the class doesnt have enough money to pay me. I enjoy coaching, but and most coaches do, but I like money also. I'm doing most of the work and getting no pay.... what should I do?

What do you think you should do??


Calling something a "ghetto" fencing class is a bit harsh and elitist. You are going ONE day a week. It is always good to help fencers get started. It is good to help those less fortunate than you. It will help you be a more focused and better fencer when you notice the little things.
Try being kind too, that will also make you a better person.

[cornflower]

Well, do it for the experience and the opportunity to coach, and it'd be good for resumes or whatever. However, if you feel like you're not challenged, go to another club. You could maybe go to the ghetto club like once a week or something, and focus on yourself in another club?

[Larrison]

I did something like this at my old club (ancient history now...). Being one of the older and better stylistic fencers, I did a lot of coaching and training of newbies.

Take the time to work on *your* style as you teach folks -- there's an old saying of something like "You never know a subject until you teach it.." Everytime you teach someone they teach you something -- either a question you can't answer, or that they give you the opportunity to perfect your style, or to try out something you hadn't quite had the time to puzzle out and perfect.

I had several things come out of this..
1) A real babe girlfriend (*sigh* ancient history, as I said) who came in for a beginners class and stayed afterwards to be friends with me...
2) A lot of experience, and pretty good style with a variety of fencers ranging from rank amateurs to quite drunk (long story...) to pretty good. If someone came in who was pretty good, I got first experience with them. Ended up with pretty good form, and since I had the time to study things I had a few tricks in my repetiore that folks didn't usually see.
3) A reputation as a helpful, good club fencer. I got invited to multiple other competitions and other things which other folks in the club didn't get invited to.

But.. I will also echo, that you really do also need to fence better fencers to get better yourself, and probably also seek out good coaching. While I was doing my club work, I also was taking lessons privately elsewhere and seeking out chances to fence other, better fencers. Fencing a lot is better than not fencing, and at one time I was fencing 3-4 nights a week, 2-3 hours per night in different venues. Club time was fun and practice time -- and gave me a chance to practice what I had been coached, and a change to work on things to spring on others.

[DHCJr]

Just looking at my signature should tell you my feelings. As what has been said above, I would like to reitterate. Use this time to work on you own style, go to competitions and more than once a week.

[J.Harris]

Are you sure you're a good enough coach to be asking for money?

At my not so good fencing club I usually help the other fencers but I'm not coaching I'm just passing on what little knowledge I've picked up from my other club, I wouldn't dream of asking money for it.

[glowstix]

Ok, I fence at a Ghetto fencing class on wednesdays. Its cheap, the quality isnt real good, but its for kids who dont have alot of income or are just starting fencing and dont want to cough cash yet. Well, I'm the best and most experienced in the class (of 18 people) and the teacher has me working with the more inexperienced people, teaching the newbies basic footwork, bladework, and occasionally giving lessons. The problem is that I am not getting any challenge, or learning, so I'm wondering if its worth it. I would like to be paid, but the class doesnt have enough money to pay me. I enjoy coaching, but and most coaches do, but I like money also. I'm doing most of the work and getting no pay.... what should I do?

oh good grief!! this is the same damn things thats happening to me right now. and i was doing so well my first year. nowadays i only get one good day of fencing per week and the other days i'm fencing newbies and i'm not improving...even worse, their bad habits are affecting me!!! and i'm supposed to be going to a NAC in a month???? hehehehehe this is the only part of fencing that sucks: you need having other good people around to improve.
i should go back to golf...

[cornflower]

i should go back to golf...

*GASP* SACRILEGE! BLASPHEMY!

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Are you sure you're a good enough coach to be asking for money?

At my not so good fencing club I usually help the other fencers but I'm not coaching I'm just passing on what little knowledge I've picked up from my other club, I wouldn't dream of asking money for it.

Well, I'm not very experienced, but after six months of coaching, the people who I coach all rise to be good, and their footwork and bladework, as well as general tactical sense is all around better than the students I dont work with. Besides that, I wouldnt ask much, like only $5 for two months.... I recognize that I'm no arkady burdan, but I wouldnt say I'm a bad coach.

[Zara_athlen]

5 bucks for two months work? Ok thats reasonable

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

5 bucks for two months work? Ok thats reasonable

Once every week, a five minute lesson, for two months.

[HillBilly]

2.50 a month, huh? Good choice. If it was me, i'd do it for free. I mean come on look at the Pros. (as in opposite of cons)

1. Experience as a coach. You learn to be more patient, and learn teaching techniques, etc.

2. Resume. Don't forget college! Even though you _should_ be doing it for the sake of helping others... (you can certaintly class it as Community Service)

3. It can only make you a better person.

4. you're introducing new people to fencing! One of them could be the next Keeth Smart, or Marielle Zagunis!

Come on man!

(is this the only club you're going to?)

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

2.50 a month, huh? Good choice. If it was me, i'd do it for free. I mean come on look at the Pros. (as in opposite of cons)

1. Experience as a coach. You learn to be more patient, and learn teaching techniques, etc.

2. Resume. Don't forget college! Even though you _should_ be doing it for the sake of helping others... (you can certaintly class it as Community Service)

3. It can only make you a better person.

4. you're introducing new people to fencing! One of them could be the next Keeth Smart, or Marielle Zagunis!

Come on man!

(is this the only club you're going to?)

No, I have two other, better clubs, where I am not the coach/assistant coach, thank god. The one I teach at isnt really a club, but a class.

[keith]

HillBilly has it spot on this is going to look good on a college admission form and if you are thinking of doing coaching it is excellent experience. Not to mention all the extra Karmic points you are accumulating.

But if you really want more out of it here are a couple of suggestions.

I am assuming there is more experienced (qualified) coach who actually runs these sessions?

If so approach him/her about a quid pro quo - will they agree to provide you with some free lessons? Phrase this positively though, you really love giving your time etc but you worry that it is affecting your timing as a competitive fencer. Or get them to actually start your coaches training with you - this will help your competive fencing as well.

Or grab one of the better trainees and show them how to move so they can give you some good training - even if it is only point work and disengages. You work with them for ten-fifteen minutes then they return the favour.

As to money - you may want to get payment (1 or 2 dollars) but don't put it your pocket put in the club for equipment etc.


But remember;

vol·un·teer ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vln-tîr)
v. intr.
To perform or offer to perform a service of one's own free will.
To do charitable or helpful work without pay

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

HillBilly has it spot on this is going to look good on a college admission form and if you are thinking of doing coaching it is excellent experience. Not to mention all the extra Karmic points you are accumulating.

But if you really want more out of it here are a couple of suggestions.

I am assuming there is more experienced (qualified) coach who actually runs these sessions?

If so approach him/her about a quid pro quo - will they agree to provide you with some free lessons? Phrase this positively though, you really love giving your time etc but you worry that it is affecting your timing as a competitive fencer. Or get them to actually start your coaches training with you - this will help your competive fencing as well.

Or grab one of the better trainees and show them how to move so they can give you some good training - even if it is only point work and disengages. You work with them for ten-fifteen minutes then they return the favour.

As to money - you may want to get payment (1 or 2 dollars) but don't put it your pocket put in the club for equipment etc.


But remember;

vol·un·teer ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vln-tîr)
v. intr.
To perform or offer to perform a service of one's own free will.
To do charitable or helpful work without pay

The other maestro at the class I go too is the oldest maestro I know. She has been teaching since she got out of college, and is now 89 years old. When she fences, she looks like a very slow aldo nadi. She only teaches the basics to groups, but doesnt give lessons. She isnt very open to change of difference of style, she hates pistol grips, epee, saber, flicks, electric fencing and she insists that everyone has their arm up. Shes a very old, very stubborn classical foil fencer, and I'm the only one in the class whos been at it and competes. I have learned all that I can learn, and am just there for some reason.... the reason escapes me and I have no idea why I keep on teaching.

[keith]

well even an old & slow aldo nadi might be able to show you a thing or two about blade and hand work, something that often gets lost when you focus your training on competitive technique - unless you can parry quarte in fifteen different ways you haven't mastered foil.

When you volunteer for things you do reach a stage where you wonder why you do it - if it is not giving you satisfaction & enjoyment you should stop or try and approach it differently. After all if any of these kids do turn out to be olympic gold medalists you will be able to bore everyone silly about how you taught them everything they know.

[mrbiggs]

I agree with keith, the old fencing style can improve our modern style dramatically-in the right place, at the right time.

I think you shouldn't quit this, and don't charge money. $5 isn't worth making enemies over. And it might be alot of time for you, but it's great to give other people the opportunity to fence. They might find it just as much fun as you do, and it'd be great to give them that.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

well even an old & slow aldo nadi might be able to show you a thing or two about blade and hand work, something that often gets lost when you focus your training on competitive technique - unless you can parry quarte in fifteen different ways you haven't mastered foil.

When you volunteer for things you do reach a stage where you wonder why you do it - if it is not giving you satisfaction & enjoyment you should stop or try and approach it differently. After all if any of these kids do turn out to be olympic gold medalists you will be able to bore everyone silly about how you taught them everything they know.

Didnt I just say that she dont give lessons or teach anything but the basics? I say boy, do ya hear me?

[HillBilly]

Is this class preventing you from doing other (better) fencing?
And nice knickers, by the way