searching for precedent

[missbertie]

My 14 year old daughter is fencing. In order to get her from school to practices in the evening, she needs to take her equipment to school with her on the school bus. Needless to say school administrators are hesitant about the fine line between weapons and sporting equipment....they say "but it looks like a weapon" --(and a baseball bat looks like sporting equipment - but I'd rather the person mad at me had a foil than a baseball bat!). She'd be carrying the "weapons" (foil & epee) in a bag, but the concern is with other students who see them as toys and not equipment (and should obviously keep their hands on their OWN stuff).
I'm looking for precedent as to how others transport their equipment (I know high schools have fencing clubs -- what do they do) and also hard cases that lock and don't cost more than the equipment itself.
Thanks!

[cfaustus]

Of course carrying your sporting equipment between practices is completely legal. If she has it in a case, so much the better. The only time I have ever had a problem was once on a public bus, I was in a hurry and neglected to put one of my epees in the PVC tubing that acts as its protective sheath. The bus driver very politely told me that she did not want me on the bus. I called the head of public transportation in my city and found a very sympathetic ear (like so many people out there he had done some fencing once upon a time). The wierd thing about this was that I have been crating my equipment around sheathed, unsheathed, in a bag, not in a bag, etc for YEARS with never a word. One of the bus drivers even got used to seeing me on the route and would joke by announcing to the bus when I got on that I was transit security. The head of transit issued me free bus passes and a kind appology. I have never had a problem since. Dealing with Highschools is of course a touchy issue. You can point out the explainations you already made as well as that if she is transporting them safely in a closed container, there ought not be an issue.

For further safety, your suggestion of a locking hard case is an excellent measure that will keep curious prying hands and eyes away from her practice equipment. I use a golf hardcase used for transporting a full golfbag on airplanes. It is only slightly larger than a regular golfbag filled with clubs. The one I got cost $65 from Sportmart. It has 4 locking closures and had enough room for me to carry four epees, four foils, two masks, two sets of uniforms and two pairs of fencing shoes to a tournament this summer (I was carrying around equipment for another fencer as well as myself). It has rolling wheels and a two different grip locations that really make it easy to handle. I had no trouble carting it around New York and onto the subway.

Hope this helps!

[MyraTrue]

I think the suggestion of a hard case is good, but I had a few other thoughts as well. A hard case, and most soft bags, if you have a mask and a weapon, don't fit in lockers well. Which means you have to carry the bag with you between classes. Which is really crazy!

Would it be possible, and acceptable to all parties involved, if she could leave the bag with someone (ie, in the office) and pick it up on her way back out? That way, she can still have it at school, she doesn't have to carry it, and the office doesn't have to worry about kids playing with it and putting someone's eye out.

Also, I know my Uhlmann bag has two zipper tabs on the opening, so that I could, in theory, put a little lock on it. I've done it when I traveled. It certainly wont keep anyone determined out, but it would "keep honest people honest" is the phrase, I guess.

I do sympathize with the "weapon" issue. At the university here, it is technically forbidden to keep fencing equipment in university housing. A foil, epee, or sabre is considered to be as dangerous as a shotgun according to rules. Which is completely untrue, but most people find ways around it. I certainly did. (Actually, my RA used to come ask to hold my foil and epee, and ask me to show her how you use them!)

[Artisan]

Put it in a fencing bag, inside a pvc tube, and tell her to never take it out outside of the practice room... no demonstrations at the bus stop or in the school yard.

[onesandzeros]

Can she arrange something where they will let her take the fencing gear on the bus and then she can leave it with any teachers or the administration at school? And just pick up the gear when she needs it? I would say the smaller the bag the better. Those hard cases get kinda big and bulky.

hrmm... kinda makes collapsable foils sound like a good idea

[Namir]

A friend of mine, tried to get a fencing club started at the collage he worked at, he ran into difficulty with the weapons vs. Sporting goods stuff, and they simply whould not listen. Soo, On the next meating he had on the subject he brought with him a, Cantalope, a baseball bat, and a practice foil.

A quick demenstration proveing that the blades where infact desinged not to hurt people and that baseball bats where more practical as weapons... The club was approved.

Also, dos the Highschool have a track team?
And do they throw javalin?
Becouse a javalin is a weapon, you could infact throw it at someone and very much so hurt them, if not impale them.
So simply suggest if they want to keep that javalin team, they'll let her bring it in.

Also, My brother had to do this for awhile and he just asked a teacher if he can keep some fencing equipment in a closet or back of the room, on whatever day he went fencing. The teacher he asked said "yeah, cool" and that was it, and your daughter will know who to ask.
Put it in the back, put a cheap lock on it, just becouse, and thats that.

And if on the FREAK chance of it getting confiscated

...Cantalope demenstration!

[oiuyt]

I suspect they wouldn't allow javelins on the school bus either... :)

Quite possible that baseball bats aren't routinely brought along, except for in the case of the team travelling to games.

From the sounds of it this is not a school-sponsored practice. Makes it harder to convince them to allow "swords" onto their schoolbuses.

-B :)

[CvilleFencer]

I love the cantalope demonstration idea. Why not just leave her kit at the salle? FOr home all she would need is a practice foil for drillwork and you can pick those up for about $15. Much cheaper than a locking case...

[Namir]

I could not imagine any problem aslong as they where in a bag, when carried onto the bus, and stayed their and your daughter did not go pointing out that she has "swords" in her bag. If asked "whats in the bag" and she says "Fencing equipment" no one should care.

[Namir]

I love the cantalope demonstration idea. Why not just leave her kit at the salle? FOr home all she would need is a practice foil for drillwork and you can pick those up for about $15. Much cheaper than a locking case...

Good Idea, that may be the easiest way to go... Just ask the coach if she can leave her stuff in the lounge, armoury, office, floor, wherever.

Put your name somewhere on the Bodycords, glove, weapon (back of pad), tag on jacket, and mask. so they don't get confused with club equipment accedentally.

[HillBilly]

Wait but, (correct me if I'm wrong), isn't her practice at the school? therefore hewr salle?

[missbertie]

Practice isn't at school. She belongs to a non-school affiliated club.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Keep it in a bag, and dont show it unless they ask. Just say its sports equipment. If they inquire further, say that its stuff for fencing, if they inquire further, draw steel.

[OffTarget]

Threaten to sue. School boards love to cave in to litigious parents

I recommend Title IX and the civil rights provisions of USCA §1983 as well as equal protection (with bat wielders)

[missbertie]

Threatening to sue is a definite option.......Also, Thanks everybody for the suggestions, she wasn't keeping the weapons in PVC pipe, that should help. She has gotten permission to keep the bag in the principals office, but the issue now is carrying it on the school bus. And by the way, we live in Washington State...I don't know about other states, but if they decide it's a "weapon" and she's got it at school without permission, it's automatic expulsion from all Washington schools for the year. (NOT an option).

We told the principal it wasn't a weapon because it wasn't intended to hurt anyone....unlike a baseball bat swung at someone. He said that wouldn't stand up in court. Anybody know about that for sure or where I'd find out?

[Namir]

Yes, it whould stand up.
And I'm being very serious when I say Cantalope demonstration.
Especialy, in court, it is the perfect demonstration, of how a fencing blade is not a weapon. If it can't hurt a cantalope, how can it hurt you.

Like I said if it's in a case, the bus driver really shouldn't notice or care if she has it. Don't go and ask the bus driver if you can bring the blades with you, just do it. It'll just look like a bag for baseball bats, or whatever. Then put it in the principals office.

And if you do decide you have to ask, ask like this "Is it alright if i bring my fencing equipment with me?" or better yet don't ask just say "Yeah I'm bringing my fencing equipment to school, Becouse, I have practice afterward."

[onesandzeros]

Since you seem to have the principal on your side (somewhat). Just tell him to inform the bus driver that it's ok for her to take the equipment on the bus.

[Zelda]

Store the blades in a bag that usually carrys hockey sticks. That way no one can actually tell its a blade.

[LordTofuDog-jnr]

I've been taking my weapons to school for a few months now and everybody is really relaxed. The only time I've ever had any problem was when a teacher tried to confiscate my foils the day before a three day competition. After I showed him how much bend you can get out of a BF blade he eased up. Later that week he tried to confiscate again but this time my P.E teacher told him they're perfectly safe.

The moral of this story, most people are far to ignorant about fencing - as everybody here would know. A fully trained sport teacher though should be able to vouch for you.

Hope that helps.

[telkanuru]

I love carrying my epees on public transportation. I always get a double seat. Even when the train is packed. Imagine that

In any case, I would agree with the general consensus that 'Don't ask, don't tell' is the best policy.