soldering a broken wire

[Torg]

<epee> i was putting together a new blade, and in my ultimate skill, i managed to break the wire every time i tried to clean it off. now it's too short to attach to the socket. is it legal to find some ordinary insulated wire and lengthen the epee wire that way, or do i have to start all over and completely rewire it?
</epee>

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

You can take the pieces of wire (if one of them is long enough) and twist them onto the other piece. Cover it with spaghetti then. Be delicate with it. When you trying to clean it off, use a candle or lighter, do this before you put the damned thing together.

[Torg]

thanks for both tips! being new to putting together swords i didn't know about cleaning them with a lighter. thanks!

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by Torg

thanks for both tips! being new to putting together swords i didn't know about cleaning them with a lighter. thanks!

dont clean the blade with a lighter, clean the wire. If you heat up the blade, you could ruin the temper. Careful with that fire, I have a couple burn marks from burning wire carelessly.

[Torg]

i figured you meant the wire, i clean the blade with acetone. and i'm a pyro, so on the whole i'm pretty safe with fire

[CvilleFencer]

If you heat up the very thin copper wire you are weakening it. I do recommend taking a razor blade and gently scraping off the cloth sheath and, if you are using an LP or German wire, the lacquer on the metal itself unless you making emergency repairs in between pools. If the bare copper of the wire is a dull, old penny color you have not gotten the lacquer off and you will not get as good of a connection as you like.

Get it wrong again and it will be time to die nerd boy! Sorry, couldn't resist.

[DHCJr]

I want to reitterate what CvilleFencer said. Don't use a lighter. Just consider what D+F+P=Hadouken! used as an explanation, Not to use a lighter on a blade. That is going to be one hell of a lighter, more a blowtorch, to affect a blade as much as a lighter will affect a 28 or 30 gauge wire. Heating up that wire will have the same effect, only more so because there is not enough metal to dissapate the heat.

Lighters and matches should NEVER be allowed in an Armory.

He was correct about twisting the wire. Do it very tightly and solder it very lightly.

This is one of the areas where less is better, as little solder as possible, as little heat as possible and when glueing, as little glue as possible.

[cowpaste]

Wow, so I guess I should stop using candles to burn wire/glue out of my blades....

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by cowpaste

Wow, so I guess I should stop using candles to burn wire/glue out of my blades....

Blades have a lot more area to dissapate the heat (also steel has a much higher melting point so it can withstand heat better) and you would have to get them very hot to damage the temper, but it still is not a super good idea. I us an old flathead screwdriver and just scrape it out. It only takes a pass or two down the channel. If you have a lot of glue on your blades you are probably using to much to begin with and could get away with using about half of the amount you currently use. Next time you wire up a blade try using just enough glue to get the wire wet (the color of the insulation will darken as it gets wet and you can use this to tell if you missed a spot) when you apply your glue and use a fine tipped glue applicator.

[suregrip]

Darn, cause I love to solder. Soldering, to me, is the ultimate answer (within reason, of course). I myself had a situation just like this one where the wires broke. If you put too much solder on, you can't get the spagetti sleeving over it - so less really IS more.

[Pepster]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

Lighters and matches should NEVER be allowed in an Armory.

Donald,

I honestly never thought I'd disagree with you... and this one is iffy, so I'd doubt it counts.

I use a lighter [ducks the barrage of tomatoes from the gallery] and I haven't noticed a problem. However, I focus on not COOKING the copper, but simply burning off the lacquer on my LP/PBT wires. (I seem to recall that a flame was recommended in the wire package)

I follow up a QUICK burn off of the lacquer/cloth with some steel wool, and I make sure that the spagetti is in the socket to support any strain, NOT the wire. So far, no failures at the socket. ( I also have a rock that potects against tigers, so I know this isn't incontrivertable proof)

Now, for my limited application of Material Science to support this rant:

Bic lighter temp: Slightly above 1000 Deg. F
Anneal Temp of Copper: Around 800 Deg. F

So, if you allow the Copper to heat long enough, you are ANNEALing it, and allowing it to soften. This reverses the work hardening that might occur if you've bent the wire back and forth a bit. The hardening leads to snapping.

----
So my point (they can be hard to find) would be, in my experience and understanding, the effects on the copper wire of a breif application of a ligter flame would be minimal, so long as the wire wasn't otherwise abused.

Anyone care to offer data/theory to correct me? I'd love to hear from someone with more than one semester of material science.

-Pep

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by Pepster

Donald,

I honestly never thought I'd disagree with you... and this one is iffy, so I'd doubt it counts.

I use a lighter [ducks the barrage of tomatoes from the gallery] and I haven't noticed a problem. However, I focus on not COOKING the copper, but simply burning off the lacquer on my LP/PBT wires. (I seem to recall that a flame was recommended in the wire package)

I follow up a QUICK burn off of the lacquer/cloth with some steel wool, and I make sure that the spagetti is in the socket to support any strain, NOT the wire. So far, no failures at the socket. ( I also have a rock that potects against tigers, so I know this isn't incontrivertable proof)

Now, for my limited application of Material Science to support this rant:

Bic lighter temp: Slightly above 1000 Deg. F
Anneal Temp of Copper: Around 800 Deg. F

So, if you allow the Copper to heat long enough, you are ANNEALing it, and allowing it to soften. This reverses the work hardening that might occur if you've bent the wire back and forth a bit. The hardening leads to snapping.

----
So my point (they can be hard to find) would be, in my experience and understanding, the effects on the copper wire of a breif application of a ligter flame would be minimal, so long as the wire wasn't otherwise abused.

Anyone care to offer data/theory to correct me? I'd love to hear from someone with more than one semester of material science.

-Pep

Thanks, I like the idea of anealing it to make it softer from the kinked spots.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by Pepster

Donald,

I honestly never thought I'd disagree with you... and this one is iffy, so I'd doubt it counts.

I use a lighter [ducks the barrage of tomatoes from the gallery] and I haven't noticed a problem. However, I focus on not COOKING the copper, but simply burning off the lacquer on my LP/PBT wires. (I seem to recall that a flame was recommended in the wire package)

I follow up a QUICK burn off of the lacquer/cloth with some steel wool, and I make sure that the spagetti is in the socket to support any strain, NOT the wire. So far, no failures at the socket. ( I also have a rock that potects against tigers, so I know this isn't incontrivertable proof)

Now, for my limited application of Material Science to support this rant:

Bic lighter temp: Slightly above 1000 Deg. F
Anneal Temp of Copper: Around 800 Deg. F

So, if you allow the Copper to heat long enough, you are ANNEALing it, and allowing it to soften. This reverses the work hardening that might occur if you've bent the wire back and forth a bit. The hardening leads to snapping.

----
So my point (they can be hard to find) would be, in my experience and understanding, the effects on the copper wire of a breif application of a ligter flame would be minimal, so long as the wire wasn't otherwise abused.

Anyone care to offer data/theory to correct me? I'd love to hear from someone with more than one semester of material science.

-Pep

Mostly, I was trying to show how rediculous the previous argument was. This may surprise some, but not all the wires used are copper, so I try and suggest what would work for all. Also, you may be careful, but I have seen some fencers who are pyrotechs. In fact, there are those who love to burn to a crisp one end of their springs. A few have been caught and they got a black card for their troubles.

I had experence with getting a weapon that was not working since they put it together and I search all over for the problem, until I take the wire off the connector. I find the wire is black. They just burned the insulation, but did not take off the insulation. I'm lazy, why burn and then take off the insulation when I can just take off the insulation. I have also had the wire break right where the black ended.

I believe in the KISS method, because there are too many time, when I could be describe as the last S.

[mrbiggs]

If not by fire, then how DO you take the insulation off those wires?

(I've always had the "it's burnt, but it's still on there" problem)

[DHCJr]

There are several methods that work, depending on the insulation. For most, I would suggest emory cloth. For myself, I use a Xacto knife, but I do not cut, I abraid. How I do that is the way I point the edge. Instead of pointing the edge down the wire, I point it back and pull the edge over the wire. It is much slower, but safer.

When you make your own wire using Rewrap wire, something sharp is the only way, emory cloth will not dent it.

But whatever method you use, be careful. To demonstrate how fragle the wire is, I put a wire on a connector leaving a little expose and very easily break it off, right at the connector.

Scotchbrite or sandpaper also works.

[suregrip]

To illustrate Donald's point, I had a fencer approach me last evening with 6 blades that were dead. All of them were broken off at the socket, and like Donald described, there was black residue on the cloth insulation of the broken wires. The fencer admitted to burning the wires during assembly. However, they were all broken, right at the burn point. All of them.

[CvilleFencer]

The same thing happens to me a lot at tourneys. I do not know why but for some reason people I don't know often come up to me and either borrow blades, ask for advice, or ask me to fix their weapons. Maybe I have gotten a rep as the "Ask him!" guy but at least it keeps me in practice. Anyway, every socket/wire failure I can think of with two exceptions have shown burn marks (one of the exceptions had been in a closet for about 16 years).

[Pepster]

As a clarification:

Did the broken wires you've seen have the spagetti insulation screwed into the socket? I got that tip from this board and found it works as excellent strain relief.

My theory is, the wire is weak, period. Mo matter what you do to it, it will always be fragile, but it's function is not to be hardy, it's to be conductive and make good contact at the socket. So I focus on maximizing those, and let the insulation provide the strength. (FYI- I use teflon tubing instead of rubber spagetti, and highly recommend it)

-Pep

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by Pepster

As a clarification:

Did the broken wires you've seen have the spagetti insulation screwed into the socket? I got that tip from this board and found it works as excellent strain relief. -Pep

None that I have seen have been "tucked" like this. I played with this for a while but found that with the thick and strong insulation I use it would occasionaly give random off targets on really hard blade actions and that the screws did not tighten down all the way.

I have never had a problem with my weapon breaking at the socket however, so I still say it is burning that causes the majority of it.

[MyraTrue]

I agree with DHC that its a better option to use a razor blade or exacto knife to remove the insulation (works well on both French and German wires). The one time I've found burning useful is when we've made our own wires out of magnet wire (which is, I believe, enameled?) You just can't seem to scrape enough insualtion off the wires to do a decent job, and it burns off when the lighter even comes close.

On the other hand, I HAVE seen the problems with brittleness in wires after heating. So I'd say, use with caution, and clean off any wire after burning and before use.

As an asside, HAS anyone found a better way to remove the enameling?