pick out some equip for a beginner

[Dclax07]

had my first actual fencing experiance yesterday....it was awesome.

But, the class that im taking has limited equipment so i have to now buy my own.

I know nothing about equip, the people at my class werent too helpful either.

I read some posts and supposedly "leon paul" makes some good fencing stuff

Can anyone give me some links or a set of equip so i can order?

Thnks

[Larrison]

If you're going to need beginner's equipment, get a basic starter set -- don't get something super fancy or super expensive. You'll need a mask, glove, weapon and protective jacket. Most suppliers have good quality, but not really expensive beginner's setups as a package -- most costing around $150 or so for a setup. The USFA has a suppliers page -- this isn't complete since these are the "corporate partners" (or something like that) to USFA, but its the best current list I know of US suppliers. Check out the links and see what they have. (I'm assuming you're from North America.) Other non-US suppliers like Leon Paul in the UK and elsewhere also have web sites and you order from them.

http://www.usfencing.org/Contacts/Corporate.asp

My recent experience has been from Santelli, who does a pretty good job in providing quality equipment. I've also bought from Fencing Post (the local club does their group purchases through them), who seems to have reasonable stuff as well. In the past I've bought from American Fencer's Supply in SF with good results, but I haven't bought from them in some years.

For specific equipment I'd recommend a french-grip foil for a starter, and a side or front zip or velcro jacket. The french grip is that is the best one to learn on, and the side or front zip/velcro jacket as its easiest to put on and take off. If you continue, you'll eventually want to get competition electric equipment -- but that's not what to learn on. The stuff you learn on and practice with is going to get beat up over the next year, so getting really expensive stuff doesn't make sense -- besides, once you figure out what you really like, then will be the time to spend more money.

[Tomas N]

Don't get velcro. Don't order from Europe unless you know exactly what size you need. Fencing.net has a good list of vendors. You can also check out the product reviews.

Tomas

[tallntender]

I believe that most of the advice above is good, but I'd suggest putting extra money into a better mask. This is particularly true if you're tall, since the cheaper masks (in my experience) have smaller bibs, affording less protection to the neck.

[Dclax07]

thanks for the info

Checked out some websites, thiers also a fencingforums.com and people over

thier recommended leon paul, its a european company but it offers starter

sets for like 250 bucks for a club level electric fencing kit. ( you hav to

buy a lame separatly).


Btw, whats the difference between a lame and a jacket?

Which do i need? thanks

[CvilleFencer]

You did not mention where you are at or what weapon you are starting off with so I will make a few assumptions: 1) That you are on the East Coast of the US. 2) You are fencing foil.

Leon Paul does indeed make some of the top kits but they are the most expensive place that you can buy it from. Also keep in mind that the rules are a bit different in the UK. Their beginners mask for example is not legal for USFA fencing and costs as much as some FIE (that means really good) masks. Avoid high-end gear until you have some experience under your belt.

I you are a beginner and are not made of money you should probably not spend more than $135.00 for kit. The Fencing Post and Blue Gauntlet have the best prices on the East Coast for starter sets. The only real upgrade I would suggest is to get a front zip jacket. Back zips are cheaper but they can be a bit of a pain. The good thing about them is that they can be used for right and left handed fencers so they are popular with clubs for loaner gear.

Avoid high-end gear or electric equipment until you are sure that you will stay with the sport and you have a better idea what you want. Best of luck and welcome to fencing.

[bigaggie]

Well, while we're helping beginners...

I took my first fencing lesson tonight. Won't be buying for a while, but I want to shop some and get info before then. So here's my info.

weapon:foil
region:College Station, Texas
height:6'5"

I have basically no clue what I'm doing, yet. I'll go ahead and follow the advice above, but keep posting stuff, as I'm reading it.

[mrbiggs]

Stay away from the electric stuff. All of it.

A lamé is a mettalic jacket that goes over your target area. It allows a scoring machine to tell whether your opponent hit on or off-target. You don't need that.

I beleive Blue Gauntlet sells a starter set. Get that if you're on the East Coast. It's cheap, and it'll give you everything. Check the sizing chart for sizes. Ask your coach about what type of grip to get. (If that's not possible, a french grip is about six inches long and straight. A pistol grip is about 4 inches long with things coming off it.)

If you want to get stuff individually, you need a :

Glove ($10-$15)
Mask (You don't need an expensive one, because you're fencing dry. Get one on the cheaper side. $50)
Jacket (Again, expensive not needed. Back or front zip is your choice. $50)
Blade-GET A DRY BLADE. Not a "bare" or "wired" blade, but a dry one. You won't be fencing electrically, and a dry blade is cheaper and will last longer. Make sure you get a grip and bell guard with it. They may or may not come with it automatically.

fencingforum.com is a British site, and, as stated, you don't want European equipment.

Sorry if I'm giving you too much information. I would strongly, very strongly, suggest asking your coach for help doing this. It's pretty complicated.

[mrbiggs]

Since you're in Texas, there might be a closer supplier to you than Blue Gauntlet. Just so you know.

And blue gauntlet's website is right hizzle

Oh, that was another poster. Never mind.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

Leon Paul does indeed make some of the top kits but they are the most expensive place that you can buy it from. Also keep in mind that the rules are a bit different in the UK. Their beginners mask for example is not legal for USFA fencing and costs as much as some FIE (that means really good) masks. Avoid high-end gear until you have some experience under your belt.

You are right, the rules in the UK are different than here, but they are more strindent than here. They also have to follow the CE guidelines also which is stricter than the USFA.

CvilleFencer, if you are talking about the non-electric kits, the most basic, is not insulated and they would not be able to fence electric in the UK either. But if you had meant their non-electric, why didn't you mention the weapons were not legal for competition also. Their starter electric mask that is legal for ALL USFA competition is only approximately $84, plus shipping and better than some FIE masks I have seen that you can get for $20 more.

If you get their electric starter kit, all of it is legal. I do agree with your statement that they tend to be more expensive then starter kits from elsewhere.

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

You are right, the rules in the UK are different than here, but they are more strindent than here. They also have to follow the CE guidelines also which is stricter than the USFA.

As I understand it all European manufacturers have to follow the CE standards. Some of the stuff coming out of Pakistan and china is CE so I thought it was more like ISO9000 than a real fencing safety standard of some sort, such as Newton strength.

But if you had meant their non-electric, why didn't you mention the weapons were not legal for competition also.

I will be happy to have you over and lend you the guest room should you ever want to attend a nice little annual open comp here in VA where you can use dry/steam weapons called the Dogwood. It is dry (except epee) and usually outside, but you still could not use the basic uninsulated LP mask because the rules say so. Of course that rule (M.27) is horribly written and makes all masks I have ever seen illegal...

Their starter electric mask that is legal for ALL USFA competition is only approximately $84, plus shipping and better than some FIE masks I have seen that you can get for $20 more.

Not saying LP kit does not rock out but it is some of the most expensive stuff you can get. I did not know where this person was located so they may have been able to get a PBT FIE mask from the Hungarian site for about the same amount of money as the LP non-FIE.

You seem uncharacteristically grumpy DHCjr. I think Midnight should be your official bedtime from now on!

[Tomas N]

Originally Posted by bigaggie

weapon:foil
region:College Station, Texas
height:6'5"

I have basically no clue what I'm doing, yet. I'll go ahead and follow the advice above, but keep posting stuff, as I'm reading it.

If you're 6'5", then Triplette may be a good way to go for an inexpensive first jacket. The arm length on their jackets are designed for orangutans.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by Tomas N

If you're 6'5", then Triplette may be a good way to go for an inexpensive first jacket. The arm length on their jackets are designed for orangutans.

All too true.

[Dclax07]

thanks for the ton of info.

Nice site, didnt know any sites to buy from.

I live in michigan, and im fencing foil.

couple questions

1. How good is the equipment in beginner sets?
I dont want this stuff breaking on me like in say a year.

2. Any upgrades from the beginner set that you guys recommend?
Im sticking to fencing so its not a problem.
I agree, i dont want to get any high end stuff now, but
I'd gladly pay 10-15 dollars more for a more comfortable jacket, or
say 5 dollars more for a lighter mask. That kind of "upgrade".

3. After I buy a beginner set, can i buy parts to "make" it electric?
i dont need electric now, but all the tournaments in my area are electric so
im going to need electric soon

Thanks

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by Dclax07

thanks for the ton of info.

Nice site, didnt know any sites to buy from.

I live in michigan, and im fencing foil.

couple questions

1. How good is the equipment in beginner sets?
I dont want this stuff breaking on me like in say a year.

2. Any upgrades from the beginner set that you guys recommend?
Im sticking to fencing so its not a problem.
I agree, i dont want to get any high end stuff now, but
I'd gladly pay 10-15 dollars more for a more comfortable jacket, or
say 5 dollars more for a lighter mask. That kind of "upgrade".

3. After I buy a beginner set, can i buy parts to "make" it electric?
i dont need electric now, but all the tournaments in my area are electric so
im going to need electric soon

Thanks

If you want a little more quality, you're probably better off piecing together your stuff instead of getting a packaged beginner set. There are many options, if you know people in your club whose equipment you can try on, that would be your best option.

After getting a beginner set, you can certainly upgrade to electric. Even when fencing electric, you'll still need a normal jacket, glove and mask (same mask for foil and epee, you'll need a new mask for sabre), so your money will not be wasted.

[kalivor]

Dclax, a couple of other things to keep in mind:

fencingforum.com is run by Leon Paul, and based in the UK, where Leon Paul is far and away the #1 supplier. While their equipment is certainly top notch, it might not be the best buy for you, considering your location and the fact that you're just being introduced to the sport.

Whatever jacket, plastron, pants and glove you buy will be good for any tournament you want to go to. If you fence sabre, you'll need a special mask to fence electric. If you're planning on fencing electric soon, it might be a better idea to buy an "electric" weapon, rather than a "dry" one. Dry weapons come cheaper, of course.

Afterwards, to "upgrade" to electric equipment would require the purchase of bodywires, a lame (for foil/sabre), mask (for sabre) and electric weapon(s) ... it's important to note that you need at least TWO bodywires and weapons in order to compete at a tournament.

[Larrison]

>[ ... ] couple questions
>1. How good is the equipment in beginner sets?
>I dont want this stuff breaking on me like in say a year.

In general its pretty good, but not AA quality. It should last you at least a year (or 2 or 3) with reasonable care. As a check on this, if possible check with the supplier's catalog or web page to see where they are buying their equipment. Most of the suppliers say whose mask is in the beginners set, and where they got the blade, etc. I'd avoid some of the cheap knockoffs from China or elsewhere if they are included, since some aren't really durable (but would still last a year with care).

>2. Any upgrades from the beginner set that you guys recommend?
>Im sticking to fencing so its not a problem.
>I agree, i dont want to get any high end stuff now, but
>I'd gladly pay 10-15 dollars more for a more comfortable jacket, or
>say 5 dollars more for a lighter mask. That kind of "upgrade".

Depending upon the supplier, you might consider upgrading the mask (some suppliers offer different masks in their beginner kit), but don't go the whole hog to FIE-level for a practice mask. You might also consider upgrading the jacket to make sure its easy to get in and out of. Some folks like the lighter weight/ cooler knit-type jackets (which are more expensive), but I'm old school in that I'll take the extra protection for non-electric practice.

>3. After I buy a beginner set, can i buy parts to "make" it electric?
>i dont need electric now, but all the tournaments in my area are electric so
>im going to need electric soon

To go electric with foil, I'd recommend a new electric blade, and a good electric lame vest plus bodycords. For competition at this, I'd go for at least 2 cords and 2 weapons. You can make your dry practice foil into electric by replacing the blade and tip -- but I've found more comfort in having a "good" electric blade for competitions and also having a dry practice blade that I don't care if it gets beat up a little. Cost difference for a new electric foil versus buying the parts is not that much either, considering you'd have to wire up the parts too. But.... I would check on the ability of the beginner's mask to pass the "punch test", which may be required for a higher level local tournament.

I've found a little psychological advantage from putting on my "competition outfit" over my practice togs. With the vest, competition electric foil and whites, I get a bit of a boost going into bouts -- I'm here to "duel!", not just practice.

[prittieinpink]

i just went ahead and got allstar fie stuff... bc i knew it was gonna last. but dont do this until you know that you want to be fencing for a long time. otherwise, i would go ahead and get some bg stuff or something...

jacket, MASK, glove, plastron, and weapon, unless your club has enough of these.

[prittieinpink]

shoes are awesome too, i noticed an improvement in my footwork when i wore fencing shoes, but they arent as important as say... a mask. or jacket.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

It is dry (except epee) and usually outside, but you still could not use the basic uninsulated LP mask because the rules say so. Of course that rule (M.27) is horribly written and makes all masks I have ever seen illegal...
As I understand it all European manufacturers have to follow the CE standards. Some of the stuff coming out of Pakistan and china is CE so I thought it was more like ISO9000 than a real fencing safety standard of some sort, such as Newton strength.
You seem uncharacteristically grumpy DHCjr. I think Midnight should be your official bedtime from now on!

You could use the Mask for Epee. I have discussed M.27 in this forum a number of times and I agree. How many Foil Masks don't have the mesh going under the chin.
The CE standards do deal with Newtons. The Bibs are required to be 350, I believe. The only requirement in the US is that you can not be able to poke through it between the bib and the mask. Also they are required the bib to go over the mask.
Your last statement is funny. You should meet some of the other Armorers, especially Carl. What I am is serious about Safety. When I give clinics, I always start off that the Armorers job is First, Last and Always safety. I also believe in being precise.