This one goes out to all the collage fencers

[adidas33k]

Ok, so I need some help dealing with the folks in our Sports club department. I go to the University of Tennessee and we've had a fencing club here for years. Anyway, the problem is that now, the Rec Sports department has decided that we can nolonger have non-student members. We've always had them in the past, and we don't really want to lose some of our most experienced members. My question is to all of you that do fence in college or have in the past, how was your membership set up. Were you allowed to have non-student members? If so, how was it set up...like was there a special non-student membership people had to sign up for or what? I just need more ammo when we have our big sit down with them next week, and it would be really nice to be able to give them an example of how other schools handle this kind of thing. So if you guys got anything it would really help. Thanks for reading this long post, and any suggestions.

[TooLoftheDeviL]

At Clemson University, we are only permitted to allow students, alumni, staff, and family members of such as members of a club sport. This is the best case scenerio, as a club is not obligated to allow alumni, staff or family members.

[cfaustus]

Teaching in a more traditional manner, we had little trouble convincing the University that we do fencing as a martial art. As such, we organized originally not as a Sport Club, but as a regular student organization. Usually, student organizations are allowed non-student members as long as the majority of the membership is comprised of students. Also, only students may be officers. We then registered as a sport group as well. Only student members who wished to compete are eligible to belong to the sport club. Both the sport club members and the student organization members practice together. Non-student members who wish to compete may do so in tournaments which are open to the public (not intramural or college level tournaments). They compete either as independents or as members of our national parent organization (We have salles in both St. Louis and Milwaukee). Then again, these are both at Jesuit Universities and it is part of the Jesuit tradition to encourage the students to interact with the community. So they are more pre-disposed to allowing Student Organizations to have non-student members. State schools may be more restrictive.

[mlr2fence]

Frequently the websites of the various colleges/universities lists the clubs and requirements for joining.

[Tomas N]

At Allegheny College, we're organized as a club sport and get our funding from the student government. We allow just about anyone to join us, although we usually apply a bit more pressure on the non-students to buy their own equipment as soon as possible. I'm guessing that if we delved more deeply, we'd find that what we're doing is going against college policy, particularly due to insurance issues.

Tomas

[CvilleFencer]

The local University club here in Charlottesville (UVA) is the entire reason my club came to exist. Me and a couple of friends were basically trying to find somewhere to fence and the college club, while friendly and a good bunch of guys, could not really let us fence with them since the whole gym is student ID key carded and you have to sign in at the front desk.

The only other college clubs I know of are at schools that our fencers now teach at and they are basically restricted as well although some exceptions are made on occasion. I think it is a fairly common thing for Uni clubs to go the rout of students only. Which is really a shame since the kids will be gone in a few years and the club has to build back up all over again. If they allowed more experienced fencers in who would be there for years it would make for a stronger club, would allow the senior fencers on the college club more practice time as they would not have to worry as much about teaching new students (assuming one of the non students was willing to help out) and would give the Uni club a pipeline into the community for fundraising and awareness of the sport/club. Very short sited and detrimental in my opinion to have Uni clubs be restricted to students only.

[veeco]

Stanford has a setup where they have 2 clubs that share the same facility and practice times. The Cardinal Fencing Club is open to non students, and the varsity club trains with them from time to time, and the students have their own training times during the day, while Cardinal has the evening spots. It used to be that the proceeds from Cardinal Fencing club went to the varsity team, to help them fund their trips and dual meets.

Perhaps something like this could be done within your club?

[Red #40]

Many years ago at Florida Atlantic University we had the same thing happen, they said we could form a non student club and rent the gym but between rent and insurance that they required it was too much. What we ended up doing was some fencers were "hired" as coaches and others signed up for a single class. It didn't last long though, the club pretty much broke apart after that. A few fencers went to a differnt club and most of us student fencers quit. I hope you have better luck than I did.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

At the UTC club I fence at, non members can fence there, but they cannot vote for club president or such.. however, they can be elected to positions, as I was.

[Katman]

We've been having the same kind of trouble at the University of Houston.

We are a sports club so only faculty, staff, and alumni are allowed to join.

They recently opened a new rec. center, which only allows student access but which also allots practice space for sports clubs. The conflict arises with the staff and alumni, who would have to buy a memebership with the rec. center (dumb stupid idiotic) to practice with the sports club they're eligible for.

Before they opened this new center, we had a 'life time membership.' It was understood by the university and us that anyone who purchased this membership from the club would go on a list and be allowed to fence whenever, wherever with the UH fencing club.

Since the new rec. center opened, the administration has been attempting to nullify this membership option (dispite two employee whom we sat on the hiring comittee for that were specifically asked and specifically stated they would preserve this membership for our club). We've been fighting it and so far we've been winning.

They do allow us coaches though. These coaches have to work for free (unless we pay them under the table). Some of o ur lifetime members are actually listed as coaches.

[frenzl]

make the non-members pay or if everyone pays have them pay more. thats what happened to me.

[darius]

At the school I teach at, community members are allowed to join student organizations as long as they purchase a gym membership for $350/yr. Granted, that's actually a pretty good deal given that the athletic facilities at the university are very nice -- it's cheaper than a membership at the sketchy gym down the street.

Some clubs have been known to charge non-undergrads a bit more money and then just keep them off the official roster.

Of course, if high school students come to fence and like the program, the school will be making a boatload of money...but that's a view which is too farsighted for university bureaucrats to understand.

darius

[CalFencer]

At the University of California, Berkeley anyone is allowed to fence as long as they pay dues ($90 a semester, $160 for the year). Most of our members are students or faculty, but we do have some community members and high school students. The Recreational Sports Facility (RSF) has a special membership for community members participating in a sports club ($35 a semester for students, $60 for community members in a sprts club). I see no problem with community members coming to fence, and I even encourgage it. Sometimes the university is the only place an individual can go to get some fencing time. My motto is that anyone can fence as long as they pay dues. Just tell the university that you would lose a lot of revenue if the new policy would go into effect. Go Bears!

[adidas33k]

Thanks to everyone for responding. Any info at all will help. I was up late last night reading through our Rec. Sports handbook, and I am now more sure than ever that we are allowed to have non-student members. I'm actually not sure why this has become such a big deal to them all of a sudden. We also just had a new student rec. center open, so I blame it.
None of you happen to know anyone at the University of South Carolinia do you? I went to the USFA club list and looked at every college club's website on there. They seem to have a seperate membership that I might try to copy here. Being another state school in the SEC might give the idea more weight. Thanks again.

[DangerMouse]

At University of Oregon we are only allowed students as members.

In order to keep the better non student fencers, you may be able to get them set up as volunteer coaches. That way they could still be involved in the club and if they are actually the best of the fencers there, it would be useful to have them coaching.

[adidas33k]

We are allowed two coaches passes per club, which we've always given to older, experienced members. We're going to try and see if we can get four this year. One for each weapon, and an extra one for someone to do "advanced" foil. Once again, thanks for the ideas, keep them coming.

[D'Artag-NOT]

At UC Irvine, our club is a sports club and membership is restricted to students and to members of the Recreation Center (i.e., UCI faculty, staff, and alumni/ae). Only students are permitted to run for club office, although all members may vote.

Possibly this policy change has arisen as the result of an insurance issue for your university?

[Inquartata]

This gets tried periodically at my club as well. ( It too is a university club, with practices in the student rec center. ) I think it's just an attempt by the administration to assert control---it always seems to happen when they get a new person in charge of running the rec center. Eventually it gets worked out, because they have always seen the logic of have experienced people to add seasoning and to teach ( we have done the "assistant coaches" thing, too ).

I have never understood how they think students alone are going to improve without any outside influences. Would a college have students teaching all their classes? Running the school? Or are they going to hire non-students for that?