coaching

[dmitri]

Can anyone on this discussion forum please educate me on what makes a good fencing coach,or coach in general. My experiences with my fencing coach have been for example:
-moody, only helpful when he feels like it
-only help said fencer that he personally likes
-inconsistency
-hardly ever come to tournaments
-take his crap out on people if he has a bad day
I am told, well that is fencing coaching so deal with it, but I am not sure, so if it is this way please people let me know and I will move on.

[Allen Evans]

Look at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~allenevans59/ETHICS.HTML

Allen Evans
Dominion Fencing

[oso97]

Those are excellent words. As someone who is still only a couple of years into his coaching career, it gives me some thoughts to consider and a model to go after.

[achilleus]

Well, I haven't written things out as neatly as above, I can tell you something rather basic and simple that I've learned about coaching.

It's a highly personal decision. Coaching, obviously, involves teaching a student. As a student, if you are having problems learning from your coach, for whatever reason, then that coach isn't right for you (we'll ignore the theoretical idea that you may be hopeless ). This may change over time.

An example:
I knew this one guy who started working with my coach, who had the best results in the area. He didn't like the lessons, and being in a large fencing area, moved to another coach. After 2 years, he was ready for a new coach having learned all he felt he could. He asked me about my coach, and then told me about what he didn't like the first time about my coach. Some very specific approaches to his coaching method and attitude.

I responded with 'He and I really work well together. He works on the areas that I need work on. I don't think he's neccessarilly the best instructor, but he is the best coach.'

After a a couple more questions, the guy understood what I was talking about and realized that 2 years ago he needed an instructor, and now he was looking for a coach.

My coach was:

Moody
Doesn't always come to tournaments
Has favorites
Consistent
Knowledgable
intense

I'm not looking for someone who is at tournaments, or friendly. I'm looking for someone who knows the sport, and consistently improves me.

Again, it's a highly personal decision.

[Foilling Around]

I am both a teacher of Gegraphy and a fencing coach.

My main contribution to the discussion is to say that a good coach/teacher treats his/her charges as individuals.

Some people need tough handling (Bullying is too strong a word), some need their egos massaging. Some need to be told they are no good so that they can go out and prove you wrong and some need to be told how brilliant they are so that they go onto the piste/strip with confidence.

A good coach works with their charges personality. My daughter needs at least 30 minutes to sulk and the rest of the day to brood after a tournament until I can discuss her performance. My son, though he has given up fencing for cricket, could always discuss things straight away or in the car on the way home.

I hate to see a coach giving identical lessons to 5 of 6 consecutive people. It is simply going through the motions. I may start with the same theme, often what we have done during group work, but I adapt it as the lesson progresses depending on the mind set, ability and aptitude of the fencer.

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by Foilling Around

he has given up fencing for cricket

wrong direction..hehehe..i went the other way.. could never play with a straight bat..

sorry for going off topic.

[Foilling Around]

Actually I once did a session with the Derbyshire Association of cricket coaches on comparing fencing and batting footwork. (I am also a cricket coach) It got them thinking about balance and movement.

[SupportCrew]

Dmitri,
Good coaches can be had, and they should be treasured.
Best Attribute in a coach: Having achieved enough personal success so that they don't NEED their fencers to succeed. The best coaches WANT their fencers to succeed, and will do everything possible to help them. Example: my daughter once had a coach (prior to fencing), that had been scouted for the Olympic team, but then got injured. She was technically an excellent coach, but the pressure she put on the kids was all about HER satisfaction. In contrast, her current coach has unbelievable perspective. He seems to have an uncanny knack of knowing when she's being lazy and needs to be pushed, and when she needs to have her confidence bolstered. They are a great team.
Which brings me to my second point. Coaching is a two way street. The fencer has to be "coachable". Bad coaches play favorites on a whim, but a good coach may seem to favoring an athlete - and if you look honestly, that athlete may be more dedicated, harder working, or just plain have more talent.
Coaches not coming to meets: It's just you, your opponent, and the director on the strip. Truthfully, my daughter is happier without distractions (she can't help wanting to please her coach). Some coaches are there all the time, but that can sometimes put pressure on the fencer.
Lastly, Different people need different coaches. I have 2 children, and I look for very different styles in their coaches. What would make one succeed would make the other wilt. Only you know what's right for you. If you're not happy, look around. But don't burn bridges unnecessarily - it's a pretty small community!

[MyraTrue]

I'm thinking that a good coach is very individual (as mentioned above.) I have had several different types of coaches, and some were "better" for me than others.

My first coach was very friendly, very personable, and very forgiving. I needed this at that point in time. A coach who yelled at me, or who was not encouraging and friendly would have been very difficult for me. I was just learning my weapon, and he helped me a great deal.

I later had a coach who was very much the opposite. He would yell at me for every mistake, demanding why I did the things I did. He was very abrasive, I'd be crying in my mask and getting angry and frustrated. It was hard to work with him. But he also helped me rebuild my fencing in a very positive way, and forced me to think about what I was doing and what purpose it served. I needed that- I needed to learn how to make the best use of a lesson with a coach, which I had not been doing. He has been the most difficult of coaches I have ever dealt with. I also learned the most from him.

I guess all that is to say that who is the best coach for you depends a lot on the stage you are at, and also on your learning style. A demanding coach can push you farther than one who is accepting. And coaches are people, which should seem obvious. But some people just ARE moody or changeable. And just about everyone, admit it or not, has favorites.

What really matters is to ask yourself a couple of things: Are you learning from him? If not, maybe he isn't the one for you. Can you, personally, deal with these traits he's got, and still enjoy what you do?

You also have an option that if you really don't think things are going well- talk with him. Explain that you find it hard to cope with x,y, and z in lessons. Ask for suggestions and express how you feel. Worst thing that happens is he's unwilling to make any alterations, and you realize you can't keep on with this coach. OR, maybe he's willing to tone down, or up, or as need be, per the individual fencer.

Hope it helps.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by dmitri

I am told, well that is fencing coaching so deal with it, but I am not sure, so if it is this way please people let me know and I will move on.

Heh, I see by your profile that you're an actor. You deal with directors ( and other actors ) every day and you find fencing coaches too odd and difficult to cope with?

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by Foilling Around

Actually I once did a session with the Derbyshire Association of cricket coaches on comparing fencing and batting footwork. (I am also a cricket coach) It got them thinking about balance and movement.

thats interesting...i've thought about the same thing myself when i picked up fencing. fencing footwork is like batting footwork with your off hand (i.e. left handed fencer's footwork similar to right handed batsmen footwork...especially against the spinners when you tend to come down the pitch for a drive, the steps are a lot like a single advance).

[dmitri]

I do deal with directors and actors but there is still some sort of organization to the crazy process. I think what i really want from my fencing coach is consistency, if you like me great, if you dont oh well, just guide me in the right direction to improve, dont need to hold my hand but give me your experience so I can learn from it. thanks for all the great replies.