Passing of some giants

[jspierre]

Not sure if it's been remarked but I think we've seen the passing of an era, a number of giants of the world fencing scene are basically headed into retirement as of the close of these Olympics, suchas:

Obry
Flessel-Colovic
Kolobkov
Kovacs
Pozniakov

just to name some of the biggest names.

At the Olympics, it was especially said to see just how dejected Kolobkov was loosing the bronze team event. He sat slumped on the floor, staring at the ceiling while the Russian team fell apart on the strip.

On the other hand, while this is probably Kovacs's last Olympics, he fought like a hero againt the French, went toe to toe with Jeannet, and Obry with shear guts, will, confidence and strength, and was impressive like a grizzled veteran. Very proud athelete, and very talented fighter.

Any thoughts?

[reposte]

It would take much more then one comp to herald the passing o a giant.
At the end of the day, the Olympics is just another comp, and not the hardest at that. You have to go through more at a WCS.

[Purple Fencer]

Very true.... but there's FAR more of an emotional angle attached to the Olympics than to the WC.

I mean how often do we make this statement about Sergei Golubitsky?? "He was a threepeat world champion, but never won Olympic gold..."

[whtouche]

I'm not convinced poz is going to retire just yet, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him at another olympics. I remember reading on his website a while back in an interview if he was asked if he wanted to be remembered as the best sabre fencer of all time, and the basic answer was yes, otherwise why would he keep going back after already attaining the sports highest honors?
He was really geared up for this olympics, and I think that he didn't win was disappointing him, and to only win bronze in the team event - I think he'll be back for at least a few more world champs if not the next olympics.

[mike morgan]

Hi Lisa:

Your father and I were Salle Csiszar teammates for 11 years, and I also fenced with your dad from 1963-67 while I was in college at Penn. The University of Pennsylvania Head Fencing Coach Dave Micahnik was also a Salle Csiszar teammate of your dad's, and Dave has stayed in touch with many of the folks you are seeking. I'll have Dave get in touch with you when he returns from vacation!!

[Army Fencer]

We'll probably lose some good American fencers, too. Many people who don't make it decide to quit fencing. A number of fencers from my club essentially quit fencing once their chances of making Athens died. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the Zimmerman sisters decided to quit fencing, too. Every four years, you're going to have some attrition.

[MikeHarm]

I've never understood people who would quit because they didn't make the olympics. If its in your blood I can't imagine ever giving it up intentionally.. and I don't understand how someone could get to that level without that being the case.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

I've never understood people who would quit because they didn't make the olympics. If its in your blood I can't imagine ever giving it up intentionally.. and I don't understand how someone could get to that level without that being the case.

One has to love the sport to put in the years of sweat and hardwork required to reach that level. At some point, the amount of work to stay at that level is too much for the fencer. While those who quit usually remain involved in the sport on some level (either coaching, or officiating), the thrill of club bouting just isn't enough to maintain their interest. Especially if they've done it since they were young. They want to experience life outside the fencing club.


I know one former olympian who is a blast to fence. He's still in great shape, but never fences. When asked why, he responds with 'Who would I fence? No here can make it interesting for me. So, I'll stick to coaching...'

[Army Fencer]

I agree with what achilles said there.

You can get burned out really easily for going at it that hard. Wear yourself thin by training and training and training. The travel gets tedious. You're hopelessly in debt. You get beat up by the Europeans who fence semi-professionally. And then the kicker: the reason why you're abusing yourself so badly is because you've been chasing a dream, and that dream evaporates. With that much bogging you down, it's easy to lose your passion.

It's brutal at that level, but that's the game we play.

[whtouche]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

I've never understood people who would quit because they didn't make the olympics. If its in your blood I can't imagine ever giving it up intentionally.. and I don't understand how someone could get to that level without that being the case.

I used to think that way too, until a brief conversation with my coaches. We were talking about their past competitive lives as fencers and I asked why they stopped. They said, because it was time. I told them I didn't understand, and they replied that it was because I hadn't gotten there yet.
Some things in fencing just come to you; when to quit (in a manner) seems just as likely to be one of them.

[JackSparrow]

You can probably add Giovanna Trillini to that list. A silver at the age of 34 is inspirational. I can remember watching her in an Olympis final when I was a kid. I'd love her to carry on though!

[sabreman]

My coach (Vitali Nazlymov) thinks Pozdniakov will not retire. He loves fencing and he would be the same age as Kolobkov at next Olympics.

[P00Man]

the poz wont retire just yet, theres no reason, he keeps getting better, and hes STILL the best.

guys unbeleivable...

[JEC]

Originally Posted by JackSparrow

You can probably add Giovanna Trillini to that list. A silver at the age of 34 is inspirational. I can remember watching her in an Olympis final when I was a kid. I'd love her to carry on though!

A great feat to span 12 years in OG for Pavel Kolobkov...

1987 Junior World Championship, Sao Paulo – Gold Medal
1988 Junior World Championship, South Bend – Gold Medal
1989 Senior World Championship, Denver – Bronze Medal
1992 Olympic Games, Barcelona – Silver Medal
1993 Senior World Championship, Essen – Gold Medal
1994 Senior World Championship, Athens – Gold Medal
1997 Senior World Championship, LeCap – Silver Medal
1999 Senior World Championship, Seoul – Bronze Medal
2000 Olympic Games, Sydney – Gold Medal
2002 Senior World Championship, Lisbon – Gold Medal
2004 Olympic Games, Athens – Bronze Medal

[jspierre]

Originally Posted by JEC

A great feat to span 12 years in OG for Pavel Kolobkov...

1987 Junior World Championship, Sao Paulo – Gold Medal
1988 Junior World Championship, South Bend – Gold Medal
1989 Senior World Championship, Denver – Bronze Medal
1992 Olympic Games, Barcelona – Silver Medal
1993 Senior World Championship, Essen – Gold Medal
1994 Senior World Championship, Athens – Gold Medal
1997 Senior World Championship, LeCap – Silver Medal
1999 Senior World Championship, Seoul – Bronze Medal
2000 Olympic Games, Sydney – Gold Medal
2002 Senior World Championship, Lisbon – Gold Medal
2004 Olympic Games, Athens – Bronze Medal

Yeah, I totally agree; Kolobkov has dominated his weapon like no other fencer in a comparable period. But how old is he now? Even if he's early 30's, and can more than competently compete in WC's this season, he'll be min, 36 by Beijing '08, right? That's vy old for O-fencing, right?

I don't think people hv really grasped the significance of this Olympic cycle in terms of a generational change in leadership in the 3 weapons. Even if these OG didn't amount to a formal hard retirement date of a lot of the top names, the top fencers - above mentioned names - are at a minimum on a decline out of competitive fencing, and likely not going to be G-medal threats in Beijing.

There are guys that are in ascendency in their weapons like a Bossie in ME, maybe, or some of the Chinese foil fencers, but the giant names are on their way out, seems to me.

[kalivor]

Originally Posted by jspierre

Yeah, I totally agree; Kolobkov has dominated his weapon like no other fencer in a comparable period. But how old is he now? Even if he's early 30's, and can more than competently compete in WC's this season, he'll be min, 36 by Beijing '08, right? That's vy old for O-fencing, right?

Well, he's 35 right now, and Trillini's 34 -- so some might argue that 36 might not be too bad for Olympic-level fencing.

The 39 years old that he'll be in 2008, though -- it would be tough to maintain the level he's at.

[P00Man]

i wonder where we can look for the next greats...

[JEC]

Originally Posted by jspierre

There are guys that are in ascendency in their weapons like a Bossie in ME, maybe, or some of the Chinese foil fencers, but the giant names are on their way out, seems to me.

Not so fast... Kolobkov (22/09/69) will be 35 in few days. But truly, there might be some giants who are just making their mark in ME.

Obviously, Fabrice Jeannet (20.10.80) is up there, his older brother Jerome (26.01.77) is 27. Then, Fabrice has an italian counterpart in style and reach... Francesco Martinelli (23.08.78)

These are the top 16 in the OG, and in bold those who are 26 or under.
1 64 FISCHER Marcel SUI 14.08.78
2 52 WANG Lei CHN 20.03.81
3 40 KOLOBKOV Pavel RUS 22.09.69
4 36 BOISSE Eric FRA 14.03.80
5 28 JEANNET Fabrice FRA 20.10.80
6 28 FERNANDEZ Silvio VEN 09.01.79
7 28 THOMPSON Soren USA 05.05.81
8 28 STRIGEL Daniel GER 13.02.75
9 16 ROTA Alfredo ITA 21.07.75
10 16 ZHAO Gang CHN 04.01.71
11 16 SCHMID Sven GER 21.01.78
12 16 LEE Sang Yup KOR 02.10.72
13 16 KOVACS Ivan HUN 08.02.70
14 16 CARRILLO AYANA Andres CUB 16.08.80
15 16 TOURCHINE Igor RUS 15.05.82
16 16 KARUCHENKO Dmitriy UKR 15.01.80
Also U27 at OG were:
17 8 MARIK Christoph AUT 12.11.77
19 8 KELSEY Weston USA 24.08.81
22 8 MATTERN Cody USA 23.02.81
24 8 KHVOROST Maksym UKR 15.07.82
25 8 FIEDLER Joerg GER 21.02.78
30 8 NABIL Ahmed EGY 19.01.86
31 8 NYISZTOR Alexandru ROM 27.06.79


Other promising (U27) fencers in top 25 ranking who did not qualified for OG included:
MARTINELLI Francesco ITA 23.08.78
KNEIP Christoph GER 07.01.80

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by sabreman

My coach (Vitali Nazlymov) thinks Pozdniakov will not retire. He loves fencing and he would be the same age as Kolobkov at next Olympics.

True, but saber takes a toll on the knees more than any other weapon....

[whtouche]

jspierre, I know at least one of the chiense MF squad is retiring this year, and I think I read something saying that this would be the last major competition for them as a group.
Altho there may be some other chinses MF fencers in....ascendancy , I don't think it will be their current team.