Modern Pentathlon - Olympics 2004

[JEC]

The competition is ongoing. Partial results for Men's side are at:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/oly...17ByEvent.html
http://www.nbcolympics.com/modernpentathlon/index.html


Vaho is currently in fourth place after four events.

http://www.nbcolympics.com/results/5000839/detail.html

[JEC]

Final results are posted:

TOP 16

Rank - Country - Name - Shooting - Fencing - Swimming - Riding - Running - Total Points
1 RUS MOISEEV Andrey 1036(19) 1000(1) 1376(1) 1032(20) 1036(10) 5480
2 LTU ZADNEPROVSKIS Andrejus 1000(23) 916(2) 1308(6) 1088(12) 1116(1) 5428
3 CZE CAPALINI Libor 1084(13) 776(19) 1336(2) 1116(8) 1080(6) 5392
4 LAT CERKOVSKIS Deniss 1096(11) 916(2) 1252(17) 1004(23) 1088(3) 5356
5 BLR MELIAKH Dzmitry 1168(1) 692(30) 1332(5) 1144(4) 1004(15) 5340
6 CZE MICHALIK Michal 1108(6) 888(6) 1260(15) 1144(5) 932(28) 5332
7 GER WALTHER Eric 952(29) 832(11) 1336(3) 1116(7) 1084(4) 5320
8 HUN BALOGH Gabor 1036(17) 804(15) 1240(21) 1172(2) 1044(9) 5296
9 USA IAGORASHVILI Vakhtang 988(25) 916(2) 1252(18) 1172(1) 948(27) 5276
10 RUS SABIRKHUZIN Rustem 1156(3) 888(6) 1216(22) 908(28) 1084(5) 5252
11 MEX SALAZAR Sergio 1000(23) 832(11) 1276(13) 1088(14) 1004(14) 5200
12 MEX PRADILLO ORTEGA Manuel 1072(15) 804(15) 1276(11) 1032(19) 1012(13) 5196
13 USA SENIOR Chad 1036(18) 720(26) 1332(4) 1004(22) 1100(2) 5192
14 SUI BRUENISHOLZ Niklaus 1096(9) 776(19) 1252(19) 1004(25) 1056(8) 5184
15 FRA DELEIGNE Sebastien 1096(10) 804(15) 1216(24) 1004(24) 1060(7) 5180
16 CHN QIAN Zhenhua 1156(2) 720(26) 1260(16) 1144(3) 892(29) 5172

[Victor]

I've been told that the one-touch format used in the pent. requires a very different attitude and focus during epee training. Of course most of us have dabbled in one-touch bouts, but those are usually just for play, nothing too serious. I honestly can't imagine how I'd get used to facing every bout as though it started at 14-14. (And doesn't a double touch count as a double defeat in the pent. format? I forget.)

[edew]

Double hits count as double-defeats, yes.

I was at the MP World Championships when it was at Stanford U. I was volunteering. They don't wait. Ready, fence, blam!

[DHCJr]

Eric, not quite right. Double-Hits as long as there is time remaining are considered as if it was 14-14 in Epee with time remaining. When time runs out and no one has made a touch without the other person making a touch, then it is double defeat.

The Stanford competition was interesting as far as the rules at that competition. For example the tube for the Gabarit to test the guard had to be 150 CM long and the piste had to have resistance GREATER than 5 ohms. I had a discussion with the president of their international federation and those interesting rules have been modified to be more in line with the FIE.

[reposte]

did you ever gave thought to the fact that they fence epee and not sabre simply because it would be too hard to train non fencers in a ROW discipline?
I mean, the Penthatlon represents the qualities required of a mounted adjutant, and he would fight with a sabre and not an epee which is strictly a duelling sword...

[DJ Apostrophe]

the mounted adjutant also wouldn't swim with the horse... so he doesnt...

i believe epee was chosen as it most closely represents a sword fight.

-w

[oiuyt]

Personally I think that the design of the sport should have resulted in the running being a steplechase rather than over flat ground. Conveniently also contested over 3000m.

-B :)

[Victor]

It's really impressive to see the athletes swim such a long distance with a pistol, sword AND horse strapped to their backs. I don't think I could do it.

[equine]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Personally I think that the design of the sport should have resulted in the running being a steplechase rather than over flat ground. Conveniently also contested over 3000m.

-B

Oiuyt, if you ride you will know at steeplechase you are quite likely to taste "teire firme" only too often. I splat myself with great frequency. Stick to stadium format, penthalon rider draw horses at random, they have never riden the horse before and are a give only a 15 minute period to get use to the horse. Add to that steeplechse and you might only have two people left for the final event and a lot of orthopedic surgeons working their craft.

[veeco]

I think oiuyt was talking about steeplechase in running, not in the equestrian event. In track, you have an event called steeplechase that is a 3000m run, where you have to jump over several obstacles, including one that has a river beneath it.

[JEC]

I have fenced Vaho and Mary Beth in pentathlon format once last year. Double touches counted as no touch in the round robin event. Three single-light touches were at stake in each bout. At the end of the round robin event, all touches for and against were added up, and then used to seed an elimination table (in that case a table of 32). All bouts were fenced, and you come up with a final ranking that leads to assignment of points.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by veeco

I think oiuyt was talking about steeplechase in running, not in the equestrian event. In track, you have an event called steeplechase that is a 3000m run, where you have to jump over several obstacles, including one that has a river beneath it.

Veeco's right, this is what I was referring to. Just makes more sense, I'd assume that battlefields would have fences, walls, streams (or in the case of the sport pools) to deal with. If you're designing the sport, you might as well design it correctly.

-B :)

[reposte]

the mounted adjutant also wouldn't swim with the horse... so he doesnt

Basically it goes like this:

The mounted adjutant rides through enemy territory, is horse his shot down, he is hiding beind it and defends himself with a pistol, when ammunition runns out he charges his opponents with a sword, then runs on foot and crosses a river.

It still should be sabre.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by reposte

It still should be sabre.

Very good description, but Epee is correct. Remember when he uses the "Sword", he is on foot. It is more like what happened in the 3 Musketeers. I still think Epee is right.

What makes it even better is, it is faster. They have such a short time, they do not sit around.

[reposte]

Sword", he is on foot. It is more like what happened in the 3 Musketeers. I still think Epee is right.

I think you're forgetting that Epee was obsolete even when it was used - it was a tool designed specifically for point injuries and used in a duel.
The musketeres used instruments which allowed for a sabre cut, they may not have been the modern Italian or Hungarian sabre, but it was a cut and thrust weapon...
Taking an Epee to a real fight would have been the equivalent of taking a Formula 1 to the Paris Dakar rally...

[reposte]

I think that sadly this sport is dying, but it is certainly one of the sports that endows the athlete competing with the most gifts, developes the most out of a man's ability to "tread life with agile foot" as Perikles has put it.

It is truelly an educative sport and no wonder its popularity was when the education of a Gentleman was a thing in itself and not an obsolete notion.

[veeco]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Veeco's right, this is what I was referring to. Just makes more sense, I'd assume that battlefields would have fences, walls, streams (or in the case of the sport pools) to deal with. If you're designing the sport, you might as well design it correctly.

-B

I could be wrong, but the event used to take 5 days. Perhaps the running event was different then, and that they made it a little shorter to accomodate for going back to a one day event?

[edew]

It used to take several days. But then, that's when there were perhaps 70+ competitors or so. Just running the full round robin with 70+ fencers would take quite a bit of time. One full day.

I like the current one-day format. Really forces the athletes do work hard all the way through.

The story line is: soldier uses a gun in a fire fight, disposes gun when ammunition is out, uses sword to fight off more enemies, jumps into water to swim away, finds a horse to go cross country, dismounts and runs the rest of the way back to camp.

Maybe they should do the following:

Have fencing uniform on at the start of the pistol shoot round. Each athlete has 30 minutes to shoot at 30 targets (out in a field, not in a shooting gallery). Real guns, not air pistols.

After the shoot, immediately don the rest of the fencing gear and fence off round robin. Then strip and jump into the water for the swim. Then immediately, still in swimming trunks, jump on horse and do the ride, from location A to location B, scored for time and successful jumps. Dismount and run like hell to the finish line. Should take 8 hrs non-stop.

[Victor]

I think the pentathalon needs a modern make-over....

1. Competitors are first scored on a sliding scale of the number of beers they can consume in the quickest amount of time without passing out -- the first person to lose consciousness ends the period and points are awarded.

2. Then they move on to a darts competition (with side bets allowed using points for currency).

3. A pool touney follows next. Eight-ball, naturally. Bonus points are awarded for creative cursing and insults.

4. Barefisted hand-to-hand combat. (I'm not sure whether weapons such as bar stools and pool cues should be allowed or not.)

5. And finally, the "run away" event, a modified inner-city steeplechase on foot.