NAC's and Fencing Dollars

[zeissg]

In several discussions around Nationals, the concept of Fencing Dollars was discussed. I believe it originated with Paul Soter in SF.

In any case, the concept seeks to look at all tournament costs, not just entry fees, and, I believe, seeks to reduce the overall cost of going to events (correct me if I'm wrong).

For example, holding an event near NYC/Boston/SF/LA could reduce the cost to a large percentages of attendees by making some events local to concentrations of fencers (e.g., no airfare/car rental and possibly even hotel, fewer days away from work/school, etc.).

I would think that venues could be secured for reasonable prices in places near fencing "centers" like the Phila/NY/NJ area, Boston/Hartford/Manchester, the East Bay (near SF) and San Bernardino/Riverside (near LA/SD/OC) (sorry if I left someone out).

In addition, places like these tend to be served by various discount airlines that want to be near big cities - generally offering pretty good fares to and from nearly anywhere. For example, flights into Oakland and Ontario CA are usually among the cheapest to/from many other destinations).

I know that (a) if one event a year was held in my backyard, I could save $300 in airfare ($600 if it is a youth event and I travel with my daughter), and (b) if other events are in good airfare places, I can probably save about $100 ($200 w/ daughter). Even considering a doubling of entry fees, I'd save money. So would probably 1/2 - 2/3 of all competitors - with the remainder coming out neutral.

Certainly, I'm not complaining this year (I'm in California - probably a NAC in Fresno, something else in Reno, Nationals in Sacramento, etc.). I did think that the debate was worth having, however, so that we may be able to encourage a different approach to site selection in the future. Thanks!

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

What if you could win free entry to another tournament by medaling at SN's, JO's, RYC's and NAC's?

[zeissg]

Then I'd never be able to take advantage of it

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Join the club.

[mlr2fence]

No matter where a NAC is scheduled, someone 'local' will be upset because its a NAC that they are not eligible for. Even if the airfare is 'cheap' the cost of ground transportation can significantly drive up the cost. I'd rather have a venue closer to the airport with restaurants in walking distance than worry aobut having it in a large city.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by mlr2fence

No matter where a NAC is scheduled, someone 'local' will be upset because its a NAC that they are not eligible for. Even if the airfare is 'cheap' the cost of ground transportation can significantly drive up the cost. I'd rather have a venue closer to the airport with restaurants in walking distance than worry aobut having it in a large city.

I'd rather have NAC's near a large city. No disrepect to any city mentioned below, but some cities are much more enjoyable than others.

The best NAC's have been NY, SF, Palm Springs, and Ft. Lauderdale (but that's cause it's a fun little town). They were easy and some were relatively cheap to get to. I don't know many people that enjoyed traveling to:

Monroeville, PA
Little Rock, AK
Rockford, IL
Charlotte, NC
Greenville, SC
Cleveland, OH
South Bend, ID (especially in the winter...)

Plus, many of those locations are expensive to fly to, or just plain difficult to get to due to weather.

I mean, is it a wonder that the top refs didn't want to go to Summer Nationals in Charlotte?

[mlr2fence]

Its one way to see cities you normally wouldn't travel to!

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Just out of curiousity, when they held JO's in 99' (chattanooga I believe) what building did they host it in?

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by mlr2fence

Its one way to see cities you normally wouldn't travel to!

It's funny until you realize that it's cheaper for me to fly to Europe than it is to Atlanta or some of the city's I mentioned...

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by achilleus

It's funny until you realize that it's cheaper for me to fly to Europe than it is to Atlanta or some of the city's I mentioned...

Eh, wouldn't that be true since you are in Europe? Or say not that you somewhere else??

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari

Eh, wouldn't that be true since you are in Europe? Or say not that you somewhere else??

No, he means ALL THE WAY AROUND the world.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

The only problem is hosting NACs in Boston (and Providence) at least has been tried before, but it never gets past the developmental stages. This is due to the fact that venues and hotels are so much more expensive in big cities. Since there is such a high demand on space in Boston, the prices get driven up a lot more than say, Cleveland. (Which really was dull).

[Artisan]

Thats why all national tournaments should be outsourced to Mexico, along with the rest of our industries. Hold all the NAC's in Cancune. EVERYONE has to fly there, but there's always a deal for $200. Hotels are cheap, food is cheap, and there's plenty of fun things to do.

[Schiavona]

Originally Posted by Artisan

Thats why all national tournaments should be outsourced to Mexico, along with the rest of our industries. Hold all the NAC's in Cancune. EVERYONE has to fly there, but there's always a deal for $200. Hotels are cheap, food is cheap, and there's plenty of fun things to do.

I second the motion! Call for a vote?

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Lets have it in oklahoma. The land is flat, and its warm. We can have it in the middle of the desert or in a cornfield. We just pitch a big circus tent, like they do at the barnum and bailey circus.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by Artisan

Thats why all national tournaments should be outsourced to Mexico, along with the rest of our industries. Hold all the NAC's in Cancune. EVERYONE has to fly there, but there's always a deal for $200. Hotels are cheap, food is cheap, and there's plenty of fun things to do.

And lots of quality water??

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

The only problem is hosting NACs in Boston (and Providence) at least has been tried before, but it never gets past the developmental stages.

By never I assume you're not counting in 1997 when Boston (Marlboro actually) hosted both JO's AND the Div II/III NAC?

I would be unsurprised if now that the division hasn't had the massive monetary drain (and mindshare drain) of the World Cup for a couple of years that Boston again made a real push for a NAC (top guesses would be JO's or the March II/III for the 05-06 (or 06-07) season). Separate quick question. Why is it that NE div was required to pay cost overruns for the World Cup when Boston hosted, but the USFA routinely bails out Metro division when they smash the budget in NYC (it was budgeted for the USFA to pay $25,000 (considerably more than TOTAL costs (USFA and NE div) for Boston to host) this past season and ended up costing the USFA $100,000. Yea NY. :eyeroll:)?

-B :)

[dekko]

Originally Posted by achilleus

I'd rather have NAC's near a large city. No disrepect to any city mentioned below, but some cities are much more enjoyable than others.

The best NAC's have been NY, SF, Palm Springs, and Ft. Lauderdale (but that's cause it's a fun little town). They were easy and some were relatively cheap to get to. I don't know many people that enjoyed traveling to:

Monroeville, PA
Little Rock, AK
Rockford, IL
Charlotte, NC
Greenville, SC
Cleveland, OH
South Bend, ID (especially in the winter...)

Plus, many of those locations are expensive to fly to, or just plain difficult to get to due to weather.

I mean, is it a wonder that the top refs didn't want to go to Summer Nationals in Charlotte?

I am guessing you are one of those types who comes into the town the nationel event is in and sits in the hotel room and does nothing and makes no effort to find anything. Cleveland was boring as almost everything was closed after 5 or 6pm and it made it difficult to find somethign to do at night. Charlotte on the other hand has lots of places to go and things to do at night but you do have to get off your butt and get out of the hotel room.

As for why these other larger places, NY, Boston, NJ, etc, don't have these events anymore I am guessing it's a combination of two facts. First, getting to local people to work together and make it happen is difficult at best. Second, and more, importantly, the union factor makes it too difficult for those setting up for the event, like vendors. Go your favorite vendor that was at JO's this last year how the union situation made their lives hell. Remove the union situation and get these local clubs to work together and maybe you can make it happen.

Besides last year, except for DI nationals, all the DI events were on the west coast. Yeah, that's fair.

[edew]

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

And lots of quality water??

Plenty: Corona, Dos Equis (don't drink that brand...), Pacifico, margaritas, various tequilas...

[edew]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

By never I assume you're not counting in 1997 when Boston (Marlboro actually) hosted both JO's AND the Div II/III NAC?

I would be unsurprised if now that the division hasn't had the massive monetary drain (and mindshare drain) of the World Cup for a couple of years that Boston again made a real push for a NAC (top guesses would be JO's or the March II/III for the 05-06 (or 06-07) season). Separate quick question. Why is it that NE div was required to pay cost overruns for the World Cup when Boston hosted, but the USFA routinely bails out Metro division when they smash the budget in NYC (it was budgeted for the USFA to pay $25,000 (considerably more than TOTAL costs (USFA and NE div) for Boston to host) this past season and ended up costing the USFA $100,000. Yea NY. :eyeroll?

-B

Because the powers that be are from NY, not from Boston. I'm sure if we were to have an NAC in NY, every dime will be out of USFA's pocket and a lot of the revenue will find their way into NY's division/section coffers.