What actions do you find UNsportsmanlike? - the corollary poll

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Scott Allen Abf

In lieu of a poll, some suggestions:


Here's one I don't know how to term, and people do it, but I find it unsportsmanlike (personally):

Feigning injury, or equipment failure, or one of a dozen other ways to stop the flow of the bout when you know you are losing and you want to get some time to readjust mentally. We saw this from Xue Tan while she fenced Sada Jacobson, IMHO. And it got her a Silver.

What is particularly loathsome is that there are coaches the teach these, what I will charitably call, 'techniques'

In the case of Xue Tan her bell guard WAS broken under the rubber part that attaches near the pommel. It is obvious when watching the video. Xue Tan is a pro and handles herself in a sportsman like manner. She exchanged weapons and got back to business. Sometimes unexpected people win.

In the case of Mariel again when watching the video it is obvious she did salute first. The ref was probably the single person that missed it.

(We have a video.)

[LordTofuDog-jnr]

Originally Posted by Bokken

Speaking of intent, I was directing at a foil meet a few years ago. One of the fencers drove his point into the ground to prevent a touch by his opponent. I awarded the touch to the opponent and issued a verbal warning (1-0).
The next time I said fence, he drove his point into the ground again before his opponent had moved, so I gave him a red card (2-0).
He immediately protested (in a vulgar and insulting fashion) that he'd slipped and needed to do that to retain his balance. I warned him about his language, and he dropped the F-bomb.
I gave him another red card, and he got angrier (3-0).
I informed him that if he didn't correct his behavior and fence according to the rules, I would black card him for inappropriate behavior. He lost the bout, too, 5-0.

Now, it goes without saying that he was acting in a very unsportsmanlike manner. His intent and contempt were clear, so I felt justified in making the calls I did. In retrospect, do you all think I should have just thrown him out with a black card after the F-bomb?

Hehehe, he got owned, nice work.

In relation to breaking blades there's a fencer in my area [I haven't seen him since he's epee and I'm foil] but he's well known for breaking his epee blades over the simple loss of a couple of hits. Since he's in the top couple in the country I assume FIE too.

[Esotamoc]

Originally Posted by LordTofuDog-jnr

Hehehe, he got owned, nice work.

In relation to breaking blades there's a fencer in my area [I haven't seen him since he's epee and I'm foil] but he's well known for breaking his epee blades over the simple loss of a couple of hits. Since he's in the top couple in the country I assume FIE too.

who is this said fencer. describe?

[LordTofuDog-jnr]

Originally Posted by Esotamoc

who is this said fencer. describe?

R. Austin apparently.

[Mo]

Using the test over and over to somehow say "I touched it didn't go off" is a good stall tactic. Over use is a big pain in the neck. It definitely goes over into bad sportsman ship but is sadly legal.
That said, if there is suspicion that something is not quite right, testing either proves there is or there isn't something not copecetic going on.
In those instances, telling someone to test is telling them to put up or shut up. Realize that not every bout is predictable... Telling someone to test is not necessarily accusing a fencer of wrong doing.

[wildmoppet]

I find a lot of them funny rather than offensive. If they want to embarrass themselves, it's up to them.

My personal favourate was when I was a newish fencer and I beat a much more experienced fencer at a big competition last year.

It was sort of funny and yet scary at the same time to watch. She threw her mask so hard it bounced off the floor then flung herself onto her knees in front of her mum, wailing like she was dying.

I was sort of scared/feeling quite guilty but at the same time I was trying hard not to laugh.

[Maeve_Mari]

That is funny and it would be hard to pass up the opportunity to tell the wailing loser just how funny it was!

[scrapinpeg]

It amazes me sometimes to see obviously spoiled brats competing in athletic events. They act totally obnoxious, whether they win or lose. One would think that continued exposure to competition would cure them of their arrogance/petulance/brattiness. I just want to tell them to get over themselves, already.

[LUDICROUS]

Spoilt brat fencers should regularly have fencing *** kickings.
And ettiquette lessons.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari

That is funny and it would be hard to pass up the opportunity to tell the wailing loser just how funny it was!

I've had talks with my fencers about this. Their take is that success is the best revenge. You win, you did get them back. Work harder and longer.
Revenge is executed with class and precision.
Take the high road!
Maeve, I know you said it is "hard to pass up" which makes me assume you do.

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by Mo

I've had talks with my fencers about this. Their take is that success is the best revenge. You win, you did get them back. Work harder and longer.
Revenge is executed with class and precision.
Take the high road!
Maeve, I know you said it is "hard to pass up" which makes me assume you do.

Absolutely agree. You don't have to say a word. Just win, salute, and walk away with a smile. Nothing says winner like a good winner.

[Lone Wolf]

In my opinion the problem with the poll is that it combines two separate issues into one. I view unsportmanship and rudeness as not necessarily being the same. Some of the items listed in the poll may belong in both categories (e.g., failure to salute), but most of the others simply a matter of rudeness. I still hang on to the notion that fencing should not abandon civility. Sadly, the trend seems to be otherwise.

[telkanuru]

Heh, if you watch the Olympic MF individual gold, Sanzo, who is is fencing with his back to the ref (right-hander on the left side of the strip), after a period of jockeying, makes this really obvious "Come get me" gesture with his off hand, reminiscant of Neo in the Matrix. Now, I would be kind of annoyed with that, only his opponent took him up on his offer, and hit him

That is the correct response to someone being a jerk on strip. Beat the #($* out of 'em, within the rules.

[veeco]

Saw him do something similar at the CIP: during fencing, he sort of throws his arms in the air, as if he was saying "Now what?" and then lunges.

He is not the first, nor the last one to do that, however!

[scrapinpeg]

I've gotten some nice points against way better fencers by just parrying and staying out of distance, without making a riposte or attack, for a little while. Then they get impatient and drop their arms as if to gesture "are you going to do anything?" and that's when I pop them.

Works best on those who prefer to score with a riposte or counterattack.

[LUDICROUS]

Hmm, I don't think saying you've been hit is a unsportsmanlike thing. If the ref saw it one way, but you knew it was a parry riposte and you say touche, thats SPORTSMANLIKE. If you're at a club bout and just say it to quicken things up, it may be taken the wrong way - perhaps the person reffing wants to get better at reffing (IMHO, it helps you understand your weapon of choice more) and takes offense.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

bump you back up

[O_O #2]

everyone has differnet ways of fencing. some people thrive on "showboating", or which may make them look unsportsmanlike. They also may use psychological ploys to demoralize their opponant. In my opinion, this only adds another dimension to the game, and there should really be no problem with it so long as the person doesnt break any rules (such as arguing with a director).

If you are seriously bothered by people who do such actions, then its probably because they were trying to bother you. and they succeeded.

(one thing I hate, though, is when someone gives me "advice" after a bout. I know how to fence, I dont need some jerk who got lucky telling me that what I am doing is "wrong")

[howtobrew]

Originally Posted by LUDICROUS

Hmm, I don't think saying you've been hit is a unsportsmanlike thing. If the ref saw it one way, but you knew it was a parry riposte and you say touche, thats SPORTSMANLIKE..

A-ha! So that is what that expression means! I swear, sometimes it is so inconvenient being an American and so isolated from the rest of the world.

[Mauler]

Originally Posted by Scott Allen Abf

Feigning injury, or equipment failure, or one of a dozen other ways to stop the flow of the bout when you know you are losing and you want to get some time to readjust mentally.

I largely agree with you on this....

On the other hand, I have had a pleasure (it really was, honest!) of witnessing a MARVELOUSLY acted out case of knee injury by an accomplished international Epee fencer at a local sectional event last year. His much-younger-and-inexperienced-yet-phoenomenally-atheletic opponent, the referee, the medical trainer and the spectators were completely, totally, utterly, and quite beautifully fooled.

He bravely fenced the remainder of the bout with compromised footwork, in great pain. As soon as the bout was over in his favor, he saluted, shook hands and briskly walked away from the strip. His injury was gone! It was a miracle!

There is at least two different versions of the story floating around from his old days in Soviet Union where fencers have been known to literally break and rip each others' bones and tendons to win a bout. So in comparison, this is as mild as one would get. Off-the-strip, however, he is very soft-spoken, exceptionally polite, and in every manner a complete gentleman.

Just don't tickle him the wrong way on the strip.