What actions do you find UNsportsmanlike? - the corollary poll

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by DanInMI

"In tournaments that I've been to, it's also grounds for black card under collusion.

Yes. I've seen it a fencer deliberately acknowledges his teammates touch just so his teammate will make it out of the pool, win the DE to earn a rating, or some other prize.

Intent is everything."

Huh?
no...it is only collusion if it is untrue. If he is deliberatly acknowledging actual touches it is only good sportsmanship.

I edited my comments almost immediately after I posted them realizing I left off a couple words. If you had used the quote function, you might have used the corrected text.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by achilleus

In tournaments that I've been to, it's also grounds for black card under collusion.

Yes. I've seen it a fencer deliberately and falsely acknowledge his teammate's touch just so his teammate will make it out of the pool, win the DE to earn a rating, or some other prize.

Intent is everything.

If it's pools the teammate shouldn't know if his teammate needs to win one more bout to make it out since they are supossed to fence each other first. So that could really backfire and make the better teammate not make it out because he may lose a bout or two that he didn't expect to accompanied with the give away loss. DEs, thats just stupid, beat up on your teammate, its fun.

[DanInMI]

Originally Posted by achilleus

I edited my comments almost immediately after I posted them realizing I left off a couple words. If you had used the quote function, you might have used the corrected text.

fair enough

[Peach]

I'm fascinated to see how many people consider failure to shake hands or to salute unsportsmanlike. I assume intent enters into this as with the others.

In an NAC last year, my opponent stepped on my foot on the last touch (which was hers). She apologized, I told her it was all right, and we started to laugh and chat as we backed up to hook up. The referee threatened me with a black card and I realized because we were talking I had forgotten to shake hands and salute.

So is that supposed to be unsportsmanlike?

[Artisan]

Originally Posted by Peach

I'm fascinated to see how many people consider failure to shake hands or to salute unsportsmanlike. I assume intent enters into this as with the others.

In an NAC last year, my opponent stepped on my foot on the last touch (which was hers). She apologized, I told her it was all right, and we started to laugh and chat as we backed up to hook up. The referee threatened me with a black card and I realized because we were talking I had forgotten to shake hands and salute.

So is that supposed to be unsportsmanlike?

Clearly the pollsters onboard her would have you drawn and quartered, suspended from the USFA for no less than two lifetimes and ostracized from the human race. I don't see a problem with it. Clearly the bout ended with both of you on collegial terms.

After all what is the purpose of the "salute / shake" rule?
- To ensure that the combative mindset stays on the strip.
- To signify that you have both agreed to the end of the bout.
- To honor the tradition of the duel - that you've accepted the outcome as the suitable resolution of the dispute that instigated the duel. - in the modern case; on this day, "my kung fu is superior to your kung fu"

All three were satisfied by your exchange.

[fencingguy]

my assumption on failure to salute was a refusal, not simply forgetting. Just forgetting is hardly unsportsmanlike behavior, only the refusal to salute after being reminded is unsportsmanlike.

[MikeHarm]

Hmm.. has anyone actually done the flashing/mooning bit? That would take a bit of work to do in a fencing outfit I would think.

[elberto]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

Hmm.. has anyone actually done the flashing/mooning bit? That would take a bit of work to do in a fencing outfit I would think.

hey is that some kind of dare?

during the bout would be a supreme effort - but who would you moon? the referee? your opponent?

and what warning would you get for that one?
faulty equipment
non confirming equipment
incorrect bend in your weapon (lol..)
loss of equilibrium?

the mind boggles how you would do this.... maybe with a sharp knife (ouch..)

maybe if you were quite happy to be black carded then it would be ok!!! then again most referees would be so busy laughing themselves silly that who would have the frame of mind to produce a card - I suppose they could pull it out of their arse...

sorry about the really really bad joke/pun... couldn't help but laugh at this post....

I am almost tempted to try - and maybe I could get pictures to post as well to prove the act.....

but then again .... I weas going to say I have some self respect but no one here (adelaide) would believe that !!

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

Hmm.. has anyone actually done the flashing/mooning bit? That would take a bit of work to do in a fencing outfit I would think.

Well, once the FIE lifts all restrictions on uniform color and pattern one can simply paint bare buttocks onto the back of one's knickers. ( Hopefully it'll be no more, er, graphic than that. )

[Hurriranger]

if you thought this poll was big, u should see my pole

[Pancakes]

Failing to shake hands and failing to salute is pretty much the only thing that bugs me.

[JackSparrow]

This thread seems like a good opportunity to rant about something that happened a couple of weeks ago at a club versus club comp (it was probably more an example of extreme petulance rather than bad sportsmanship, but that's not going to stop me ). A member of the GBR cadet squad from the opposing club lost against my friend in what was meant to be a friendly and during his after match tantrum, he purposely snapped his blade over his knee. His dad who was present didn't seem to be bothered by this, maybe it's not the first time it's happened.

Now call me judgemental but that has got to be the most unsporting act I've ever seen. I thought it ruined what had been a really fun night. I can't deny that I was also privillaged enough to have parents who took me to competitions when I was young, but if I had started to break equiptment because I was in a bad temper, that would be the last time I ever competed. That's not to even mention the all mighty clip around the ear my dad would have given me. I don't know, maybe I'm sounding like my dad (please god no...), but he must be pretty spoilt to be able to be able throw away money like that. In the words of edew "it really boiled my goat".

[Hurriranger]

aw but the thing is, they broke THEIR blade, they broke their stuff, not yours so who cares how he acts after the bout? it's pretty childish and unsportmanlike but i don't think it should offend the opposition as much as not saluting or gesturing the opponent directly during or after a bout. Let them break whatever they want, they'll end up paying for it later, in more ways than economically.

[Inquartata]

Heh...I saw a guy try to break his sabre blade once in a similar post-loss fit of pique. Only succeeded in bending it into a fishhook shape. Poor fellow, terribly anticlimactic. Even lost against his own weapon...

[JackSparrow]

Definitely not his day!

[LUDICROUS]

Originally Posted by JackSparrow

This thread seems like a good opportunity to rant about something that happened a couple of weeks ago at a club versus club comp (it was probably more an example of extreme petulance rather than bad sportsmanship, but that's not going to stop me ). A member of the GBR cadet squad from the opposing club lost against my friend in what was meant to be a friendly and during his after match tantrum, he purposely snapped his blade over his knee. His dad who was present didn't seem to be bothered by this, maybe it's not the first time it's happened.

Now call me judgemental but that has got to be the most unsporting act I've ever seen. I thought it ruined what had been a really fun night. I can't deny that I was also privillaged enough to have parents who took me to competitions when I was young, but if I had started to break equiptment because I was in a bad temper, that would be the last time I ever competed. That's not to even mention the all mighty clip around the ear my dad would have given me. I don't know, maybe I'm sounding like my dad (please god no...), but he must be pretty spoilt to be able to be able throw away money like that. In the words of edew "it really boiled my goat".

Agreed, my parents would confiscate my gear and give it to other people, and promptly inform me that I'll never fence again, that I'd be grounded for life and the list goes on....

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by JackSparrow

This thread seems like a good opportunity to rant about something that happened a couple of weeks ago at a club versus club comp (it was probably more an example of extreme petulance rather than bad sportsmanship, but that's not going to stop me ). A member of the GBR cadet squad from the opposing club lost against my friend in what was meant to be a friendly and during his after match tantrum, he purposely snapped his blade over his knee. His dad who was present didn't seem to be bothered by this, maybe it's not the first time it's happened.

Now call me judgemental but that has got to be the most unsporting act I've ever seen. I thought it ruined what had been a really fun night. I can't deny that I was also privillaged enough to have parents who took me to competitions when I was young, but if I had started to break equiptment because I was in a bad temper, that would be the last time I ever competed. That's not to even mention the all mighty clip around the ear my dad would have given me. I don't know, maybe I'm sounding like my dad (please god no...), but he must be pretty spoilt to be able to be able throw away money like that. In the words of edew "it really boiled my goat".

I've seen fencers try to break a blade in epee when the blade wasn't working quite right, and they couldn't convince the ref to let them change it. I would never, ever, ever do that, though. It literally makes me nauseated to look at a severly bent blade. Breaking one...I don't think I could do it.

[SwordSoul]

Originally Posted by Scott Allen Abf

If your grip is loose, you can get another weapon. If it is not loose, and you are doing it merely to collect yourself then you are ABUSING the intent of the rules to allow you to exchange out the defective weapon.

hmm... i won't say that i haven't "accidentally tied my shoes wrong" when i was getting my butt handed to me. it's good tactics IMHO....

walter flaschka (sp sorry!) brought up a good point on the foil fencing cd-rom -- i think it was called "pull up your socks." it's a stall tactic.

I consider sportsmanship paramount in any game i play--however, I have halted a bout to ask that my opponent pull up their socks, just to affect their momentum. if someone does the same thing to me, I take an eeeeeextra long time to pull up my socks. I use it as a chance to get myself together or to assess the bout. I remember one time I was asked to straighten my blade. I did so, and then as soon as the director said "fence" i raised my hand and asked my opponent to straighten his blade, strictly to let him know i could play his game too. It's a lot like when the pitcher walks off the mound and then the batter steps out of the box. Niether action has to do with pitching or hitting of course, it's purely a psych game.*

i get scared when we say "intent of the rules" because well isn't that part of why 50% of the fencing (foil) world is uber pissed at the FIE right now?


*and i didn't intend for the "however" to imply that that's unsportsmanlike.

[Bokken]

Speaking of intent, I was directing at a foil meet a few years ago. One of the fencers drove his point into the ground to prevent a touch by his opponent. I awarded the touch to the opponent and issued a verbal warning (1-0).
The next time I said fence, he drove his point into the ground again before his opponent had moved, so I gave him a red card (2-0).
He immediately protested (in a vulgar and insulting fashion) that he'd slipped and needed to do that to retain his balance. I warned him about his language, and he dropped the F-bomb.
I gave him another red card, and he got angrier (3-0).
I informed him that if he didn't correct his behavior and fence according to the rules, I would black card him for inappropriate behavior. He lost the bout, too, 5-0.

Now, it goes without saying that he was acting in a very unsportsmanlike manner. His intent and contempt were clear, so I felt justified in making the calls I did. In retrospect, do you all think I should have just thrown him out with a black card after the F-bomb?

[SwordSoul]

the F-bomb should rarely if ever be tolerated. In any sport, if it's tolerated it sends a very very poor message to spectators, parents and other fencers alike, that you can get away with just about any vulgarity and it won't be punished. You handled the bout well, but I would have kicked the little pissant (speaking of vulgarity) out and told him not to let the door hit him in the butt on the way out. Especially if you warn him about language and he makes it WORSE, he is blatantly challenging you. He needs slapped down and how.

p.s.--the stabbing the floor thing was one of those hazing things done to me when i joined the high school team--kinda like the left-handed mask. I was told it was legal. oops.

Ugh, i have no tolerance for tantrums on strip.

peace,
matt