08-25-2004, 06:09 AM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2000 Location: South Africa
Posts: 351
| Disgusting FIE
Sorry to start a new thread on an existing topic, but I would like to state my case against the FIE.
I believe that the FIE have brought our sport into disrepute, threatened the integrity of our results and cast aspersions on our referees. I believe that they may have seriously damaged our credibilty and placed our high regard in jeopardy.
The FIE spokesman mentioned that there may have been some sort of bribery involved in the final of MF. He then said that the FIE was powerless to investigate and were therefore merely suspending the referee concerned for 'incompetence'. This is a very bad state of affairs.
If a referee is corrupt, s/he should be banned for life, additionally, the people bribing him should also be banned for life and the national feration concerned should have its membership terminated for at least one olympiad. All of this should of course be done after a proper disciplinary process.
If bribery is to be alledged those concerned should be given the opportunity to defend themselves and show their innocense. This opportunity has not been afforded to the referee; instead he has been slandered and everyone wonders: was he bribed, and if so by who? The FIS, an italian fencer, who? This is clearly unacceptable.
I believe that the FIE should be called upon by all fencers and fencing federations to explain their actions in this regard and hold a proper inquiry into the event. If bribery is proven, then all guity parties should be harshly dealt with if not, all FIE officials concerned with this disgraceful incident should apologise to the FIS, the Italian MF team and teh world in general. They should also all resign and never hold office in the FIE again!
If there is bribery in fencing competition we must eradicate it NOW! We can not allow our sport to be tarnished with a smear such as that. If there is no bribery in fencing competition, then the FIE has single handedly managed to disparage EVERY fencing competitor with this slander.
I am disgusted!
Regards
Cyr | 
|  | | And now for this message... |
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08-25-2004, 08:13 AM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,468
| Right on. I'm all for a coup de etat.
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08-25-2004, 08:24 AM
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#3 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,377
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! Right on. I'm all for a coup de etat. | THE GREAT DAY
HURRAH for revolution and more cannon-shot!
A beggar upon horseback lashes a beggar on foot.
Hurrah for revolution and cannon come again!
The beggars have changed places, but the lash goes on.
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Last edited by sabreur; 08-25-2004 at 08:28 AM.
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08-25-2004, 08:30 AM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Londinium
Posts: 439
| Get your pitchforks -- we storm the castle at dawn!
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08-25-2004, 09:06 AM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,115
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Cyranox11 The FIE spokesman mentioned that there may have been some sort of bribery involved in the final of MF | Where did you hear this?
I can find no mention of this on "google news." | |
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08-25-2004, 09:17 AM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2000 Location: South Africa
Posts: 351
| Read it in one of the 2nd hand reports somewhere on the net... | |
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08-25-2004, 09:23 AM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 550
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Epeecurean Get your pitchforks -- we storm the castle at dawn! |
I'll bring the coffee and donuts! | |
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08-25-2004, 09:25 AM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2000 Location: South Africa
Posts: 351
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by R. Exnicios I'll bring the coffee and donuts! | Rather make it marshmallows: they roast better!  | |
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08-25-2004, 09:45 AM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,115
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Cyranox11 Read it in one of the 2nd hand reports somewhere on the net... | Hmmm...
did find something.
"I was sitting very close to Rene Roch" - president of the FIE - "and I heard him say 'go figure how much the Italians paid the referee'," Pescante said. "Then, talking to the Chinese, he referred to 'the Italian cheaters'," he added.
But that was the Italian Under-Secretary of Sports, Mario Pescante, commenting on what he says he overheard Rene Roch say. It does not appear that Rene made any serious public comment. It seems that Pescante is playing some politics. | |
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08-25-2004, 10:02 AM
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#10 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 22,838
| The relevant passage, from http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news?slu...ters&type=lgns Quote:
Faerber added that the FIE would not be conducting an investigation either into the possibility of foul play.
"Why? If we ask him if he took money and he says not, what can we do? We don't have the authority to investigate his bank accounts. And we don't have any evidence that there was anything wrong," he said.
"We think this was incompetence. But this is surprising for one of the top referees in the world.
"It is the first time that we have ever sanctioned a referee in this manner."
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08-25-2004, 10:16 AM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2000 Location: South Africa
Posts: 351
| Thanks Inq | |
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08-25-2004, 02:47 PM
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#12 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: greece
Posts: 3,362
| I feel that buying bouts, collusion and at all it's forms are disguting and reprehensible practices...
That said, I don't know if I blame the FIE.
Reading Nadi's book, it's clear the this form of cheating has been involved in fencing from the get go. From him accepting payments, ref's accepting payments, to fencers doing another fencer a favor.
I've heard stories of this one fencer in the 70's/80's, who was owned by anybody who wanted the bout. Until one championship (either an OG or World) where he collected his favors. He fenced maybe one or two bouts total, and the rest were payment for the previous bouts...
Elaine Cheris had a huge article in SI during the 96 Olympic qualification as she was accused of buying bouts internationally. In that particular article, Paul Soter the WE national coach at the time compared fencing to boxing in terms of fixed bouts.
Various international competitors said that it's common to throw bouts.
So, has the FIE brought this ruin? Well, it didn't start it, it hasn't stopped it, but quite honestly, I'm not sure they can.
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08-25-2004, 05:01 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,115
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata | Ahhhh very interesting. But I guess i can understand that they have to be carefull.... they do not have the evidence to prove cheating, then they have to be carefull about the accusations that they make. It is safer to say the director is incompetent, at least that they can prove. | |
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08-25-2004, 11:15 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ypsilanti, Mi USA
Posts: 1,589
| I think that the more crooked director's they suspend for giving folks 'handicap matches' the better I say. I'd love to see more of that.  | |
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08-25-2004, 11:31 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: nyc
Posts: 201
| right on !! | |
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08-26-2004, 05:18 AM
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#16 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 22,838
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by DanInMI Ahhhh very interesting. But I guess i can understand that they have to be carefull.... they do not have the evidence to prove cheating, then they have to be carefull about the accusations that they make. It is safer to say the director is incompetent, at least that they can prove. | Of course. My point was that if that's the case why mention the money idea at all? Just say it was for incompetence and leave it at that. Mentioning it at all gives the whole thing kind of a "nudge nudge wink wink" effect. As if to say "It was bribery, but for legal reasons we can't say it was bribery, so officially we're saying it was NOT bribery, because we don't want to get sued for slander, but you still get the idea". | |
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08-26-2004, 03:00 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Israel
Posts: 293
| IMO there is a clear scent of bring down the Italians lately, and I think not without merit as far as fencing foil is concerned.
I don;t care to voice an opinion on how it's done because these are things which happen over my leage, but for once would much rather see a more classical (Chinese) foil fencing in the future.
The Italian pressure makes them able tosway foil refereeing to where they want - do we really awnt the school of Cassara and Sanzo to dominate the refereeing?
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08-26-2004, 03:20 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 805
| Poor Hidasi
The rumor I hear from friends who ref internationally is that he is actually one of the more honest refs (quite rare among certain nationalities at that level), and was put in to take him down. He was having a bad reffing day and had tried to plead out of the bout, but various forces conspired to put him in, each hoping that he would favor one side or another with his mistakes, and thus be sanctioned.
Wow. That sucks. | |
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08-26-2004, 03:23 PM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vermont USA
Posts: 1,536
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by qatet The rumor I hear from friends who ref internationally is that he is actually one of the more honest refs (quite rare among certain nationalities at that level), and was put in to take him down. He was having a bad reffing day and had tried to plead out of the bout, but various forces conspired to put him in, each hoping that he would favor one side or another with his mistakes, and thus be sanctioned.
Wow. That sucks. | If that's true, I feel very sorry for the guy!
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08-26-2004, 04:36 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 805
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by The0ne If that's true, I feel very sorry for the guy! | And the fencers! Apparently, at that level you have to fence your opponent, the ref, and also the people who choose the ref. | |
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