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Inquartata · 08-28-2002, 06:21 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by oiuyt:
I have little experience with small divisions (I've been a member of 2 mid-sized divisions and am now a member of a large division, I've competed on occasion in 3-4 other mid-sized divisions). If getting 15 people is a less than ordinary circumstance, then the 25 person thresholds quickly fall into the same category that the 64 person parts of the chart do... things to exclaim about but never actually see.<hr /></blockquote>As a person who has ONLY belonged to a sparsely populated and widely dispersed Division, let me address this one.

I have been fencing for nearly 25 years. In that time, my Division has managed exactly two sabre events with the old minimum of 15 people, and that only by pleading with a number of foilists and epeeists to cross over. In those two events we awarded two C's. One has left the Division, the other is "retired". The new system will make it flatly impossible to earn a C in this Division in sabre. Period. Impossible. No C's to make a C1 event, and nowhere near the 25 bodies to make a C2.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />While I too can construct theoretical events which could give more Cs to larger divisions while preventing small divisions from doing so, looking at my area of the country I don't see much that would support this actually happening.<hr /></blockquote>I think that was the point loch was making---if you live in a small Division this is a big concern, one which most of you in other Divisions will shrug about because it doesn't seem to you to be a problem...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
If someone really is an A/B level fencer then they should be able to earn the C at a sectional or div II/III event. <hr /></blockquote>I am very dubious about this, due to certain observations I have made at Div II/III NAC's. To wit, there seem to be a largish number of people going from U to C or B in these events. Whether this is a result of coaches holding their fencers out of getting ratings in other manners so that they can "leap" ratings like this or mere coincidence I am not sure---but I am suspicious.

I go to large local events in neighboring Divisions, and I place, normally ahead of most C's and a few B's. ( I am a D, for the above reason of Divisional size ). I go to Div III NAC's and place behind most D's and an awful lot of U's. Somewhere, there is a factor unaccounted for...

Peach · 08-28-2002, 06:44 PM

I know my point of view is parochial, being confined mostly to women's sabre, but I've noticed that the unrated people who do well at II/IIIs are usually relatively newer people (often from strong clubs with excellent coaches) who are on their way up, or sometimes competent people who have been working hard at it for a while and get lucky. That first type of fencer, coming from a strong club, I would assume would find it darn hard to earn a rating because their clubmates beat them at local events. Their coaches don't have to hold them out of anything--they'll lose to the fencers who know them inside out locally.

I could be biased--I earned my B (as a D) in a Div II, so I know it ain't all unrated fencers in the top 8. I was definitely from the second category, though.

I'm lucky--although we rarely have more than 6 or 7 in our divisional sabre tournaments, I have some larger events within traveling distance--NYC, DC, MD, some of the Chesapeake Challenge circuit events--so I travel. But I've never earned higher than a C in any of those because they're populated by people with the same agenda as mine, and they're usually mixed events as well. I had to go to national events to get anything higher.

I'm a broken record on this subject, but the new C requirement is going to make the already-tiny Div I WS NACs into painful, intense miniatures. Now that it's even harder to earn a C, and it was already impossible for many of the better WS fencers to earn even a D, this is going to be downright narsty.

three_hundred_fifty_five · 08-29-2002, 02:34 PM

To oiuyt,
That was one long reply.

Inquartata · 08-29-2002, 06:21 PM

Yeah, Peach, you may be right about that. As close as I am to the problems of being in an area with few fencers and no highly rated ones I am probably not thinking very accurately about the problems of being in a place with MANY highly rated ones. Forest, tree, etc.

I don't recall noticing the U-to-B phenomenon in the WS events at Div II/III NACs. Maybe it just hasn't spread to the women yet...

You know, I had just about decided that I didn't want a C---as a D I got the best of all worlds: I could fence in Div I, II, AND III. With the new cutoff for Div I I'm torn again. Stay a D so I can do II and II? Get a C so I can do I and II? Decisions, decisions! Grrrr!