Nike & Fencing

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by GGK

I hope you weren't tutoring math.

G

Oh dear lord no!

So, what IS the magnitude of the increase? If you start with no player, and you get one, what is the gain?

[oiuyt]

0% of the undrafted college students get offers from the NBA which they turn down. Why? Because of the nature of the NBA rules and the whole drafting process.

For ANYONE to be eligible for offers from the NBA they MUST have passed through the draft process. Either enter the draft and get drafted by a specific team, in which case that team gains the exclusive rights to the player for the next year (after which the player can re-enter the draft), or pass through all rounds of the draft without being selected, at which point the player is, theoretically, free to sign with any team that's willing to pay someone that no team wanted (which isn't impossible and happens in the NFL with some regularity as these players tend to be cheap, can be assigned to the practice squad and further observed, and due to the NFL having a fairly low number of draft rounds). We therefore KNOW that there aren't "secret" negotiations with college players where the player rebuffs the advances of a team. We also know that these players don't even have an agent through which such offers could be presented (even signing with a sports agent removes NCAA eligiblity).

Now we do know that there are players who continue in college despite knowing that IF they left school early that they would be drafted and would make professional money. Generally these players fall into one of two categories. Either they think they can improve their draft position and therefore make MORE money, or they want to play for an NCAA title. I'm sure there are other people with other reasons (including wanting the education, wanting the diploma, promises to a dying grandmother, whatever), but these certainly seem to be fringe or "plus-factor" type deciders rather than full justification in the vast majority of cases. A number of professional players will continue with schooling during off-seasons to finally get that degree (frequently for reasons such as "my grandmother always wanted me to graduate from college"). I believe Ray Lewis, the All-Pro Linebacker for the Baltimore Ravens just finished his degree last year, 9 years into his professional career.

Inq- In addition to the brief explination of the drafting process above, here's the answer to some of your NBA-specific questions. I believe the draft is held in June. Basketball is a winter sport, so they'll probably be starting the season in the next week or so. No, actually it starts early-mid October (same weekend as the Div II NAC). Training camps and pre-season and whatnot before that. In basketball the salaries and bonuses (boni?) to players are set according to a slotting system so where one gets drafted determines salary negotiations which speeds that process considerably. So pretty much everyone gets signed soon after the draft. When paychecks start arriving in the mail I don't know, but effectively at that point they have guaranteed money coming to them and play for a given team.

-B :)

[GGK]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Oh dear lord no!

So, what IS the magnitude of the increase? If you start with no player, and you get one, what is the gain?

The gain is one. The percentage increase is infinite. (Start with zero and anything greater is an infinite percentage gain...As opposed to starting with 2 and going to 4 for a 100% gain)

G

[Neil]

Originally Posted by GGK

The gain is one. The percentage increase is infinite. (Start with zero and anything greater is an infinite percentage gain...As opposed to starting with 2 and going to 4 for a 100% gain)

G

If you don't like anally retentive responses, please stop reading now. You've been warned...

It's not an infinite percentage gain from 0 to 1. It's not meaningful to talk about a percentage increase from zero to anything.

A 100% gain on 2 is: 2 + (100% of 2) = 2 + 2 = 4.

But there is no percentage of zero that will give you a non-zero number. It doesn't matter what you multiply zero by, you still get zero. Zero times infinity is zero.

I can't believe I just posted this. I am such a nerd.

[kalivor]

Originally Posted by Neil

If you don't like anally retentive responses, please stop reading now. You've been warned...

It's not an infinite percentage gain from 0 to 1. It's not meaningful to talk about a percentage increase from zero to anything.

A 100% gain on 2 is: 2 + (100% of 2) = 2 + 2 = 4.

But there is no percentage of zero that will give you a non-zero number. It doesn't matter what you multiply zero by, you still get zero. Zero times infinity is zero.

I can't believe I just posted this. I am such a nerd.

Wrong.

Infinity is not a standard number, like 2 or e or pi or something. Multiplying 0 by infinity could result in anything -- it's not equal to zero, but there is no defined "answer".

For instance, if you take the limit as N approaches 0 of N x 1/N ... N approaches 0, but 1/N approaches infinity. So we have a case of multiplying 0 by infinity, but the answer is 1.

Alternately, the limit as N approaches 0 of N x 1/N^2 ... another 0 multiplied by infinity, but this time we get infinity as the answer.

So ha! Who's the bigger nerd now?

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by kalivor

Wrong.

Infinity is not a standard number, like 2 or e or pi or something. Multiplying 0 by infinity could result in anything -- it's not equal to zero, but there is no defined "answer".

For instance, if you take the limit as N approaches 0 of N x 1/N ... N approaches 0, but 1/N approaches infinity. So we have a case of multiplying 0 by infinity, but the answer is 1.

Alternately, the limit as N approaches 0 of N x 1/N^2 ... another 0 multiplied by infinity, but this time we get infinity as the answer.

So ha! Who's the bigger nerd now?

... and that's not even taking into consideration the imaginery component!

[Peach]

You both win. You can stop now.

[P00Man]

id like to see a nike fencing shoe

[Neil]

Originally Posted by kalivor

For instance, if you take the limit as N approaches 0 of N x 1/N ... N approaches 0, but 1/N approaches infinity. So we have a case of multiplying 0 by infinity, but the answer is 1.

Actually, the limit as N approaches 0 of 1/N doesn't have a unique answer, since the limit N -> 0 from above of 1/N approaches +infinity, and the limit N -> 0 from below of 1/N approaches -infinity... ok, ok, I'll stop now.

I'd like to see a Nike fencing shoe, too.

[kalivor]

Originally Posted by Neil

Actually, the limit as N approaches 0 of 1/N doesn't have a unique answer, since the limit N -> 0 from above of 1/N approaches +infinity, and the limit N -> 0 from below of 1/N approaches -infinity... ok, ok, I'll stop now.

True, I should have been more specific with my limit. But my point still stands!

I don't think we should stop. I think we're driving everyone crazy in a manner more effective than a RoW + sportsmanship thread.

[GGK]

Originally Posted by prototoast

... and that's not even taking into consideration the imaginery component!

No reason to get complex

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

For ANYONE to be eligible for offers from the NBA they MUST have passed through the draft process. Either enter the draft and get drafted by a specific team, in which case that team gains the exclusive rights to the player for the next year (after which the player can re-enter the draft), or pass through all rounds of the draft without being selected,

OK.

We therefore KNOW that there aren't "secret" negotiations with college players where the player rebuffs the advances of a team.

Does not follow. We only know there are no formal, official ones.

If, say, a scout expresses interest in a player, that certainly implies that there's entree to the process and all that lovely money in his future. We still don't have one clue what's going on under the table, as it were---what promises are made, what informal, contingent offers are being made.

We also know that these players don't even have an agent through which such offers could be presented (even signing with a sports agent removes NCAA eligiblity).

Yes. And just like authors never sell a book without an agent, players
never get---oh, no, wait...

Inq- In addition to the brief explination of the drafting process above, here's the answer to some of your NBA-specific questions. I believe the draft is held in June. Basketball is a winter sport, so they'll probably be starting the season in the next week or so. No, actually it starts early-mid October (same weekend as the Div II NAC). Training camps and pre-season and whatnot before that.

Thanks!

bonuses (boni?)

Isn't that the guy from U2?

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by GGK

The gain is one. The percentage increase is infinite. (Start with zero and anything greater is an infinite percentage gain...As opposed to starting with 2 and going to 4 for a 100% gain)

G

How can different integers qualify as "infinity"?

Stupid math anyway.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by kalivor

True, I should have been more specific with my limit. But my point still stands!

I don't think we should stop. I think we're driving everyone crazy in a manner more effective than a RoW + sportsmanship thread.

Curse you, math nerds! There is a special circle of Hell waiting for you all!
( And I don't care what it's area or circumference is, either! )

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Curse you, math nerds! There is a special circle of Hell waiting for you all!
( And I don't care what it's area or circumference is, either! )

Well, just know that there's a special hypercube of Hell waiting for you...

4th dimension'd!!!11