Fencing Changes for Television

[achilleus]

So, thoughts on how it looks?

I mean the team colors on the uniform (including lame), clear masks, reeless, and lights on the mask?

Personally, I thought the colors were great for TV. Could have been bolder, but in the closer shots they were great.

The mask lights are good, but they need to switch them. In other words the person who is hit lights up.

Reeless didn't make that much of difference for me, but the clear mask did. I'm not a fan of them. I think their performance for the sport sucks (blind spot and safety), but man it was great to see some facial expression on strip before the touches.

So, what are everyone else's impression? Is this good enough? A step in the right direction? A good start? Or none of the changes were useful?

(Note: Inq, we know you hate colors, and clear masks so please post observations on what you saw rather than pointing out the same back and forth argument we've been having in various other threads. Thanks.)

[bryce_d]

i guess i haven't been paying close enough attention. what events have been reeless?

[oso97]

Originally Posted by achilleus

The mask lights are good, but they need to switch them. In other words the person who is hit lights up.

Oh god...

and it took me a good two years to stop screwing up ROW calls because of the reversal of the lights the LAST time...

[grotto]

Originally Posted by achilleus

So, thoughts on how it looks?

I mean the team colors on the uniform (including lame), clear masks, reeless, and lights on the mask?

Personally, I thought the colors were great for TV. Could have been bolder, but in the closer shots they were great.

The mask lights are good, but they need to switch them. In other words the person who is hit lights up.

Reeless didn't make that much of difference for me, but the clear mask did. I'm not a fan of them. I think their performance for the sport sucks (blind spot and safety), but man it was great to see some facial expression on strip before the touches.

So, what are everyone else's impression? Is this good enough? A step in the right direction? A good start? Or none of the changes were useful?

(Note: Inq, we know you hate colors, and clear masks so please post observations on what you saw rather than pointing out the same back and forth argument we've been having in various other threads. Thanks.)

I think the colors were great. I like the subdued way they were presented, while still giving the fencer an Identity, (hell the swimmers just have a flag on their cap.) I don't think that fully colored uniforms would add much. the clear masks can go, the fencers have ample opportunity to show off their faces during breaks, to wipe their brow etc. I didn't find them to add a compelling aspect to the bouts. As for the Lights in the mask, definite thumbs down, I found them to be hard to see and distracting, (not to mention that I started singing the theme to "inspector gadget" when they went off.) I much rather have an illustrated bar on the bottom of the screen or like the graphic that the italian station used.

I think the best part was the slow motion replay of the touch, makes it more interesting to the uninitiated, and easier to understand how fencing is called. (Again from the Italian feed.) All in all it is a great start. If people are willing to watch a no hitter pitching dual in baseball, fencing does have a chance to gain some screen time.

[bryce_d]

something to indicate to whom the touch was awarded would be good.

it's not a problem if you're keeping up with the score, but if you don't know how the ref is calling the phrase, or what the previous score was, you may have a hard time knowing who got the touch.

i like the idea of graphics on the screen. the red/green/white lights on the screen from the italian feed were ok, but they weren't always present, and there seemed to be a delay sometimes. i recall seeing videos of worldcup bouts a while ago where the lights were very visible on screen and instantaneous.

[DHCJr]

Achiles, they used to have touches scored against, but they decided that no one would understand a sport where the high score lost. They never asked Tiger Woods.

Bryce_D, Sabre is the only one that is reel-less so they still need reels for all the strips, unless they have a Sabre only competition and even Sabre only competitions have reels, and for Sabre anything before the round of 16 (round of 32 for Olympics) is with reels. So even Sabre only World cups must have reels for all their strips.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

Achiles, they used to have touches scored against, but they decided that no one would understand a sport where the high score lost. They never asked Tiger Woods.

I know. I wan't born yesterday...

But for the mask lights, it's counter-intuitive. The person gets hit, I expect to see them light up.

[veeco]

Well, that's because you're thinking about it in a fencer's perspective. If you think about it in a spectator's perspective it's different. For the fencers there are still lights on the machine and on the end of strips (also they are not the official ones, but that's another matter).

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by veeco

Well, that's because you're thinking about it in a fencer's perspective. If you think about it in a spectator's perspective it's different. For the fencers there are still lights on the machine and on the end of strips (also they are not the official ones, but that's another matter).

I'm actually looking at it from spectator PoV. The spectator, at least me and those unitiated with me, weren't watching the box. We were watching the fencers, specifically, the blade and the hit. They were confused about the mask lights, since they would see an obvious hit, but no light on the person who got hit...

From a fencer PoV, I know why the lights are the way they are. To me it makes sense. Watching on TV, I had a different opinion.

[40Saberthieves]

I actually thought of this today.

Why not increase the weight of the weapons (from a pure "Lets make this sport popular point of view").

It would slow down the sport and make it easier to see everything.

[Maeve_Mari]

What's the deal with reeless? Why are some reeless and some with reel, and why does it make a difference. How come also is Saber the only reeless weapon?

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by RogueNine

I actually thought of this today.

Why not increase the weight of the weapons (from a pure "Lets make this sport popular point of view").

It would slow down the sport and make it easier to see everything.

Oh, could we also use two hands and maybe use neon to make the blades glow? Then we could make cool lightsaber noises when we make actions....

Alright just kidding.

I've actually thought that to slow the sport down all that would be required is to fence everything dry. Since all touches would have to be visible to the naked eye, the actions would be cleaner and more for show than hitting your opponent.

As for heavier blades that would just ruin bladework at first. Then slow the sport down, then the next generation of athletes would be stronger and the game will speed up again only, it'll hurt more.

Tennis tried, unsuccessfully AFAIK, to slow down the men's game by making the ball heavier.

[fencerX]

Originally Posted by achilleus

But for the mask lights, it's counter-intuitive. The person gets hit, I expect to see them light up.

Just like Laser Tag

Originally Posted by achilleus

So, what are everyone else's impression? Is this good enough? A step in the right direction? A good start? Or none of the changes were useful?

Colors on uniforms, clear masks, reel-less systems, lights on masks are all trivial changes compared to the major change that worked for TV. The big change that worked? Americans doing well is what worked for US TV.

The NBC networks covered events like badminton, K1 kayaking, shotput, etc not because the sports are overly popular or TV friendly in themselves, but because they had what it takes: a Yank with a chance. The same goes for other countries' coverage. What was worked for their TV networks is fellow country-people doing well, not the trival stuff.

So if Americans want to see more fencing on TV, the best way is to get better at it. (Fencing, not TV)

You really don't need to worry about seeing someone's face through a mask until they get they rest of their body into the later rounds and on the strip.

[CarlKnoch]

One word would describe heavier weapons.

OUCH!!!

Originally Posted by RogueNine

I actually thought of this today.

Why not increase the weight of the weapons (from a pure "Lets make this sport popular point of view").

It would slow down the sport and make it easier to see everything.

[dekko]

I actually liked the other countrys' logos on the knickers they had, expecially the Chinese knicker logo. The USA knicker logo was boring.

Instead of thinking you got hit, you got lit up, think of it as the light shows who got the touch.

I liked the graphic lights as they came on either side of the 'Round' graphic. I also like the idea of having something show who got the touch, maybe a checkmark graphic or something similiar.

Bottomline, what ever the Italians did, camera work-lights-graphics-etc, worked and they have it figured out. Even then foil and epee was easy to watch even though no masks lit up when they hit.

I hope some American TV folks see/saw that to know how it's done.

[dekko]

Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari

What's the deal with reeless? Why are some reeless and some with reel, and why does it make a difference. How come also is Saber the only reeless weapon?

Wow, there's a can of worms.

Armourers want a shot at this one?

Also, armourers, why do you here in America, require that ridiculous non conductive material over the hand off the cuff when apparently no one else does? You guys and girls like to preach how you do things like they do everseas but you have missed the boat on this one. When will you stop requiring that useless piece of material?

[kalivor]

Originally Posted by bryce_d

i like the idea of graphics on the screen. the red/green/white lights on the screen from the italian feed were ok, but they weren't always present, and there seemed to be a delay sometimes. i recall seeing videos of worldcup bouts a while ago where the lights were very visible on screen and instantaneous.

Well, keep in mind that the Italian feed was live. It's much easier to edit lights onto the screen that are perfectly in synch with the hits ...

[the doc]

there is a new innovation on english tv that is made for fencing: the 1000 frame per second slo-mo cam. it gets used it cricket and tennis and is just fantastic. even is sabre you would be able to see every move clear as day.

that, combined with overhead remote cameras and a tracking camera (like they use on the home straight in athletics) would make perfect coverage for fencing on tv. and maybe something to make the blade contrast better with the background.

[Rolls]

Originally Posted by achilleus

Oh, could we also use two hands and maybe use neon to make the blades glow? Then we could make cool lightsaber noises when we make actions....

Really, it's not a bad idea. They could use computers to highlight the weapons like they do with the puck in hockey.

Tell me fencing wouldn't be OVERWHELMINGLY popular then. Plus, it ACTUALLY would make the action a lot easier to follow. You can clearly see the weapon, AND it would be colored red or green depending on what side they were on.

Rolls.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by Rolls

Really, it's not a bad idea. They could use computers to highlight the weapons like they do with the puck in hockey.

Tell me fencing wouldn't be OVERWHELMINGLY popular then. Plus, it ACTUALLY would make the action a lot easier to follow. You can clearly see the weapon, AND it would be colored red or green depending on what side they were on.

Rolls.

I would only voter for that if I got wear a Darth Vader helmut, the imperial march played every time I scored, and I go to make the heavy breathing sounds.