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Elemental · 08-17-2004, 06:17 PM

I recently copper leafed my mask as seen below.

The problem is that the mesh is now conductive.

I realize that this would be a problem if I started sweating profusely(sp?) and the bib of my mask became conductive as well. But I doubt that I will sweat THAT much.
I really like my mask and I would hate to have to remove the copper, but I can't really afford a new mask anytime soon either.

How legal is this? I'm having trouble finding it in the rules. (I'm also limited on my internet time at work and I have slooooooow connection at home)

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanx.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 08-17-2004, 06:27 PM

Very pretty. It should only be an issue if your bib gets wet enough that it bridges between you mask mesh and your lame.

Purple Fencer · 08-17-2004, 06:29 PM

Looks like a JL mask...not that expensive if you need to go the replacement route...I sell them for $50.

As DFP said, unless you sweat enough to create a bridge the fact that the mesk is now conductive is not a prpolem IN SALLE -- the rules DO say that the mask must be insulated, with the copper invalidates.

DrDoom · 08-17-2004, 06:31 PM

I regularly sweat through my bib to the point where my slightly worn Allstar mask registers on target right on the crease. I would think an entirely conducting mesh would cause frequent problems on a hard day of fencing.

Elemental · 08-17-2004, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

the rules DO say that the mask must be insulated, with the copper invalidates.

That's what I needed to know. Most people in my Salle like it. I know it looks orange in the pictures.

I'm going to try to use a solvent to remove the adhesive that holding the copper on. I had hoped the sealent I had used would insulate the mask enough. I guess it didn't.

I may buy a new one if I can afford it but my next tournament is in Oct and I don't know if I'll have a spare $50 by then. Salle Aurial is hosting and they said they will be doing some rather extensive equipment testing. I'll just have to cross that bridge when I come to it I guess.

Thanks for the feedback.

DHCJr · 08-17-2004, 08:18 PM

Here is a little question, see if all of you could answer. It is obvious from the picture that the mask in question is illegal. Here is a trick question, the best kind. What style of Foil Mask could he have done what he did, that would be legal for electric competition?

There is a way to do it. Any takers.

prototoast · 08-17-2004, 09:12 PM

You could also consider going over it with some sort of clear glaze kind of thing. It would be a shame to take apart such a nice looking mask.

prototoast · 08-17-2004, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

Here is a little question, see if all of you could answer. It is obvious from the picture that the mask in question is illegal. Here is a trick question, the best kind. What style of Foil Mask could he have done what he did, that would be legal for electric competition?

There is a way to do it. Any takers.

One of those visor masks... because the FIE will let all regulations slide to allow those... and from what I've seen, most visor masks have a conductive band around the lexan, so I guess there is an allowable conductive area on those.

DHCJr · 08-17-2004, 10:17 PM

On the sabre mask, the bracket is uninsulated, but on the Foil Mask they are not, if you can find a Foil Visor mask. They are more difficult to come by, since they are not required.

If you look at M.27 you would think there was no way. I will give a hint. Think of the uninsulated rivets that are on many types of Foil masks. They are legal, in spite of M.27. Why?

prototoast · 08-17-2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

On the sabre mask, the bracket is uninsulated, but on the Foil Mask they are not, if you can find a Foil Visor mask. They are more difficult to come by, since they are not required.

If you look at M.27 you would think there was no way. I will give a hint. Think of the uninsulated rivets that are on many types of Foil masks. They are legal, in spite of M.27. Why?

I don't doubt your rules knowledge, but the leon paul clear mask here: http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/vision_2000_best.jpg

Certainly appears to have a metal strip around the lexan plate.

And only loophole I see in m.27 is that it only refers to the mesh, so rivets would not be part of the mesh... so if it were some sort of magic forcefield mask... I have no idea.

DHCJr · 08-17-2004, 11:20 PM

Close enough and your picture helps demonstrate what I was trying to show. The outside of the mask is clearly not insulated, but the inside is. Also it is insulated from the bib, which is the most important point. You will see many masks with a rubber band or other material around the edge and over the bib.

If you would cover the outside with the copper foil, but not the inside and kept it away from your bib, I would see no problem.

There was never a good way of testing for insulation, until Ted Li, Head Armorer 1996 & 2000 Olympics came up with a way. He created 2 lame mittens connected to an Ohm meter. You placed one on the inside and one on the outside and saw if there was a connection. A fast and efficient way of testing. Another inovation by a U.S. Team Armorer.

Underneath the foil, the mesh is still insulated. That was good research.

Elemental · 08-18-2004, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

If you would cover the outside with the copper foil, but not the inside and kept it away from your bib, I would see no problem.

Hmmm... I only put the copper on the outer mesh. The inside is still the original black, isulated, mesh.

If I were to remove, say a 1/4 inch, of the copper from the bib area, would it then be legal, or do is this unique the visor masks?