What is this fencer doing? ... not checking the shoelaces

[JEC]

<a href="http://www.fpe.pt/esgrima2002/pcme-017.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.fpe.pt/esgrima2002/pcme-017.jpg</a>

I have no idea of the preceding moments, that is, what happened first. However, the fencer on the right has turned his back on the opponent while touching the opponent with his/her foil. The other fencer may have scored on the back if had ROW.

Most likely ... yellow card to the right fencer, annulling the right touch.

On the lighter side, this champ is not feeling bad...
<a href="http://www.fpe.pt/esgrima2002/pcme-091.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.fpe.pt/esgrima2002/pcme-091.jpg</a>

<small>[ 08-25-2002, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: JEC ]</small>

[edew]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by JEC:
[QB]<a href="http://www.fpe.pt/esgrima2002/pcme-017.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.fpe.pt/esgrima2002/pcme-017.jpg</a>

I have no idea of the preceding moments, that is, what happened first. However, the fencer on the right has turned his back on the opponent while touching the opponent with his/her foil. The other fencer may have scored on the back if had ROW.

Most likely ... yellow card to the right fencer, annulling the right touch.

On the lighter side, this champ is not feeling bad...
<a href="http://www.fpe.pt/esgrima2002/pcme-091.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.fpe.pt/esgrima2002/pcme-091.jpg</a>[/QB ]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Fencer coming at us made a fast attack. Fencing going away from us (but has turned his back and is facing his chest at us) made a counter-attack by spinning out. Fencing coming at us made a quick slow-down and still managed to get the hit. No yellow cards, touch (probably) for the fencer coming at us.

[135711]

fencer A: charging towards us did a fleche attack, fencer B moved to the right to get out of the way and spinning around EXPOSING HIS BACK [tsk] whipped his foil into his opponents chest, yet missed him completely, while fencer A scored a point onto B's back [a valid target]. was the point thrown out? i just saw the other picture, in that action: the victor won the spoils.

<small>[ 08-25-2002, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: 135711 ]</small>

[Bebop and Rocksteady]

Looks like a typical bout at my school ~_~

[HilandDoug]

Eric, you have ref experience, so I need to ask: why no yellow for the fencer who turned his back? Is it becasue the turn may have come after the touch?

[135711]

While we await the verdict from eric, please look below.

In Quartata: a counter-attack made with a quarter turn to the inside, concealing the front but exposing the back. This is a legitimate move in fencing, so why would the fencer be penalized. I feel the turning the back rule should be re-examined.

[edew]

His turning could very well be caused by the reactionary push back by the blade during his counter-attack, so his hit was prior to the turn, and then he turned because the blade pushed him around. It happens. Without seeing the action in motion, I can't make any more claims.

However, from experience, very few people who turn first ever get to hit someone as shown in the picture. Generally, the opponent will just stop, point at the turned fencer and scream at the referee, "Hey, he's turned his back!"

<small>[ 08-26-2002, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: edew ]</small>

[three_hundred_fifty_five]

In that first photo, the fencer on the right (with his back turned around) could have been in the middle of an "in quartata". Old-fashioned in quartata is with the front foot planted and the back foot pointing perpendicular with the back turned away. New-fashioned in quartata is to spin around instead of planting the back foot. So, I feel the fencer on the right could have been in the middle of a spin-a-roo. However, if the fencer on the right had right-of-way on the attack, it would have been his point if his tip landed on target. From the looks of the attack, it seems like the fencer on the right saw it coming and tried to score on his back.

In the second photo, I think it goes to show, "Chicks dig Allstar FIE masks".

[E-fencer]

Here's another possible explanation- He closed on his opponent and just did a prime parry; since his tip is pointing down, he has to angle the point up from below. He may have a grip tang, however, which prevents him from angling the blade sufficiently by just bending his wrist, (so that the tip will go up) so he has to "put his body into it", bending his shoulder over in order to allow his forearm to have enough angle to hit target.

This is a familiar tactic because I do the maneuver often...although I don't turn as much as this guy (don't expose back) and my grip tangs are all short so that I can hit that angle by just bending my wrist and not bending over...

[JEC]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial"> In the second photo, I think it goes to show, "Chicks dig Allstar FIE masks". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial"> That what I thought.
Cool... I have one!

[135711]

i think i see what 355 is saying: the old fashioned in quarter is like a 1/4 turn, while the new fashioned 'quarter' is more like a 1/2 turn.

[three_hundred_fifty_five]

I looked at the photo again and the fencer on the right (who is backward) is not really doing an in quartata. I say that because his head is looking down and back. In the in quartata, it's not proper technique to look back and downward. Old-fashioned in quartata is to lean back and look over your shoulder. New-fashioned in quartata is not to look at the target at all. At the proper time, you spin your body away while keeping the point in line to score, so, the head is actually spinning around with your body.

[three_hundred_fifty_five]

After throwing out my "in quartata" theory, I reviewed the photo again. This is another theory but this is what I think is what may have happened.
There was an action that occurred by one of the fencers and neither scored and there was no off-target. That action closed distance between the two fencers. The second action was the fencer on the right attempting an in-fighting flick to his opponent's low line. That got jammed while his opponent simultaneously closed distance to avoid getting scored on (which is why the fencer's blade on the right is really flexed) while executing a side-ways jab.

[three_hundred_fifty_five]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by 135711:
<strong>i think i see what 355 is saying: the old fashioned in quarter is like a 1/4 turn, while the new fashioned 'quarter' is more like a 1/2 turn.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Actually, the new-fashioned in quartata is a full 360 degree spin. Anyone else know what I'm talking about. Here's how it goes. You are totally sensing at attack (flick, lunge, or fleche). Especially when the distance is within a short or medium lunge, you watch your opponent's move first. Then, you move your body forward (keeping the front foot planted), this brings your point closer to your opponent's target area while he's moving towards you. Your tip needs to stay in-line and towards his 4. As your body shifts over your front foot, you pivot on your front foot (counter-clockwise for a right-handed fencer). As soon as you are 180 degrees around (facing backwards), you bring your weapon around and complete the spin. Once you are forward again, you keep on moving with your forward momentum like in a fleche. The timing is the same as the old-fashioned in quartata in that by the time he passes your body, your tip should land on target.

[135711]

i like photo analysis, please continue to post them - it really helps us to learn about fencing. thanks