Gold Medal Sabre Final-UNFAIR!!!!

[Phoenix]

I was watching the bout with my family and I think that Montano got ripped on some of his touches. Did anyone else see that? I wasn't cheering for him at first (ya know, the whole Smart thing and all....) but then I saw Montano make a touch and like 2 seconds later Nemcsik makes the touch. and the ref calls NEMCSIK! I could have made that call and I stink at ref-ing! Did anyone see how unfair this bout was?

[ReverseLunge]

I saw it. he had established PIL for like 2 seconds.

[J.Harris]

which "he", Reverse Lunge?

[reposte]

I have to say that on the whole, unlike previous times, I felt that it was refereed very nicely and without mistakes.

[Mihail]

That wasn't "unfair." If the bout was truly unfair, Montano would never have been allowed to get the point-in-line touch near the end since it was vague enough to screw him over.

The ref is just hard on counter-attacks and didn't call 2 of them. That's something good sabre fencers have to be able to understand without getting too bent out of shape about it.

Anyway, onto the bout itself:

It was BORING. Neither of them took any risks; neither did anything to try to completely break down his opponent. It was all just a bunch of guess-when-I-won't-commit-to-the-attack. I'm really disappointed with the top-level sabre. My favorite fencer is Lopez (from France) because he's just about the only one who does anything original or creative. He just needs to get a little stronger in order to get some breakout success.

[reposte]

Why do you feel the PIL was vague?

[Peach]

Some sabre referees will not award point in line unless it is established much farther away than Montano did, though Nemcsik did hesitate when the line was put, or at least that was my recollection from watching it yesterday.

It was also my impression that after Alvarez made a poor call against Montano's attack in preparation, he awarded the next touch to Montano in what looked like a simultaneous attack. However, having watched Olympic judging in slow motion, I know better than to question that particular call.

[dunastor]

Nemcsik did hesitate when the line was put

Besides that, he seemed to be searching for the line, and Montano derobed...

[reposte]

As I recollect, a PIL receives ROW into preperation.
Whatever's more then one lunge or step away (whatever's not a direct attack in one time) is preperation, no? I'm counting on sabre to be the only place where proper PIL timing is applied, since it's all gone in foil nowadays.

[dunastor]

Preparation's when your arm isn't extending....

[sabreur]

As I recollect, a PIL receives ROW into preperation.
Whatever's more then one lunge or step away (whatever's not a direct attack in one time) is preperation, no? I'm counting on sabre to be the only place where proper PIL timing is applied, since it's all gone in foil nowadays.

You recollect incorrectly....

As a rule of thumb, you need to outside of advance-lunge distance to establish a PIL. I thought Montano's line was late, but Nemscik made a very clear attempt to take it, and Montano deceived and hit.

MR

[dynosabrefencer]

Anyway, onto the bout itself:

It was BORING. Neither of them took any risks; neither did anything to try to completely break down his opponent. It was all just a bunch of guess-when-I-won't-commit-to-the-attack. I'm really disappointed with the top-level sabre.

This echoes what I was saying in the "Men's Sabre -- Last 8" thread yesterday. The fencing is monotonous and boring I think it's because the distance/strip is too short and they don't want to take chances. All they do is try to steal the rightaway because to try to parry or stop-cut at such distance is suicidal. Top sabre fencers are fantastic technicians; they can do anything with their sabres -- in practice. But all that skill is wasted in real bouts because they are so close to each other.

[dunastor]

I don't think the Olympic final was a great example of all the top level sabre fencing in the world...

There are bouts that have more bladework, and are more exciting...

[noodle]

it is unrealistic to expect any bout to be refereed perfectly to everyone's expectations.
even gold medal bouts.


edited to include this for people who haven't seen:
kamara james went out in her first DE
so did sherianne mackay (sp?)
flessel-colovic is still in and doing well

[prototoast]

I don't think it's worth complaining that it was unfair, since the person you say was slighted ended up winning. Right now I don't think Montano cares about the 2 touches he should have gotten.

[edew]

According to the athens2004 website, the referee was Floria, not Alvarez.

[DanInMI]

Besides that, he seemed to be searching for the line, and Montano derobed...

yes, exactly.
If it wasn't PiL, then he had RoW because he derobed him.

[HillBilly]

In my eyes there was a really obviously bad call where Montano did a search then attacked, but Nemcsik clearly hesitated on his attack. . . Should have been point for Montano on that one, but other than that, solid reffing I'd say.

[The0ne]

In my eyes there was a really obviously bad call where Montano did a search then attacked, but Nemcsik clearly hesitated on his attack. . . Should have been point for Montano on that one, but other than that, solid reffing I'd say.

[edew]

Unless there's a LONG hesitation by Nemscik, a failed search gives the right to attack to the opponent, so Nemscik should get the point.

I haven't seen it, so I'm only commenting on the interpretation of what you saw.