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Thread: New Penalty Chart

  1. #1
    Senior Member R. Exnicios's Avatar
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    New Penalty Chart

    I created a pocket size penalty chart with the nes rules changes. I used the FIE chart for reference. I wanted to get some feed back and revise it if needed. I'll post the final version after I make any corrections.

    Thanks for any input

    Cheers
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Rolls's Avatar
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    Very cool chart. At first, I thought this would be real handy for refs, but now that I think about it, it's pretty handy chart for a fencer to carry around too.

    I can see it now...
    "No, you're supposed to annul the point with that card, see t.##"

    Anyway, my one comment, isn't the turning the back (t.21) no longer a penalty? I'm not sure when that goes in to effect, but I thought it was immediatly.

    Rolls.

  3. #3
    Senior Member greenchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolls
    Anyway, my one comment, isn't the turning the back (t.21) no longer a penalty? I'm not sure when that goes in to effect, but I thought it was immediatly.
    It's reversing the angle of the shoulders that's no longer a penalty, not turning the back.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rolls's Avatar
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    Ok, that makes sense... sort of. Just out of curiousity, what's the difference between turning your shoulders and turning the back to your oppponent?

    Rolls.

  5. #5
    gother than thou TooLoftheDeviL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolls
    Ok, that makes sense... sort of. Just out of curiousity, what's the difference between turning your shoulders and turning the back to your oppponent?

    Rolls.
    With the former, you're still facing your opponent.

  6. #6
    Senior Member kalivor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolls
    Ok, that makes sense... sort of. Just out of curiousity, what's the difference between turning your shoulders and turning the back to your oppponent?

    Rolls.
    The turning-the-shoulders rule prevented bringing the back shoulder in front of the front shoulder.

  7. #7
    Posting Hound oiuyt's Avatar
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    You rotate in different directions for each. For turning the back you generally rotate counter-clockwise (for a RH fencer viewed from above) and for reversing the shoulders you rotate clockwise (obviously this is flipped for LH fencers (or when viewed from below) and rotating in the shoulder-turning direction sufficiently far will result in turning the back).

    -B :)
    "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

  8. #8
    Needs to get Outside Inquartata's Avatar
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    Very cool chart!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Schiavona's Avatar
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    As far as I can tell, if you are fencing opposite hands-R to L, L to R, you can turn your rear shoulder completely toward your opponent, just like the bad old days! Same hand fencing you get carded for turning your back toward your opponent.
    John Matus
    Anchorage Fencing Club

  10. #10
    Member RETLAG's Avatar
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    Pardon me if I appear dense, but I was under the impression that turning the back was eliminated along with reversing the shoulder angle. I gather this is not so.

    Let me give you an example. We have a foil fencer in our club who likes to flick when he gets in close. To be honest, he doesn't flick as well as perhaps he thinks. On more than one occasion he has attempted a flick, and thinking he had scored, stop the engagement, turn his back and walk back to his en guard line without a light on the scorebox or a halt from the referee. Now, regardless of the rules, this is obviously a stupid thing to do, and his opponent has every right to poke him in the back and score a point. In the past, however this has always been a yellow card infraction. Am I to understand that it still is?
    My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Joe biebel's Avatar
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    Great,! Good job. The two "typos" I noticed were: the word "obey" is spelled with an "e" and a space is needed between the words "movement" and "crossing" .
    Joe Biebel

  12. #12
    Senior Member kalivor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RETLAG
    In the past, however this has always been a yellow card infraction. Am I to understand that it still is?
    Yes. (56789 ... 10!)

  13. #13
    Senior Member downunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RETLAG
    Let me give you an example. We have a foil fencer in our club who likes to flick when he gets in close. To be honest, he doesn't flick as well as perhaps he thinks. On more than one occasion he has attempted a flick, and thinking he had scored, stop the engagement, turn his back and walk back to his en guard line without a light on the scorebox or a halt from the referee. Now, regardless of the rules, this is obviously a stupid thing to do, and his opponent has every right to poke him in the back and score a point. In the past, however this has always been a yellow card infraction. Am I to understand that it still is?
    still a yellow card, but your interpretation is slightly off.

    -----------

    the correct way to referee this situation:

    Call Halt!

    Issue group 1 yellow card to fencer that turns the back.

    Unless the counterattack started before the fencer turned, then annul any hit scored by either fencer. Halt! is called for the offence, any movement commenced after that is non valid.

    -----------


    It happened in the British Senior Womens Foil national semi-final (which i was refereeing), to a huge gasp from the crowd. I'm glad i got the call right tho .

  14. #14
    Senior Member Rolls's Avatar
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    the US Rule book might be differnet, but it says the following under T.21

    any touch scored by the fencer at fault is annulled.
    that implies to me that only the fencer turing his/her back would have their point annulled.

    Rolls.

  15. #15
    Posting Hound oiuyt's Avatar
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    Ah, but if the counter-attack (or any other action) hasn't started before the fencer turned (as specified by downunder) then it starts after the halt (regardless of whether or not the word has yet been spoken by the referee). No action that starts after the halt can be awarded a touch.

    Downunder is exactly correct in his/her post.

    -B :)
    "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

  16. #16
    Senior Member R. Exnicios's Avatar
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    Okay here is the most recent chart I created. I did the revisions people pointed out. This one is full size (i.e.) 8.5 x 11 but it becomes pocket size if you reduce it to 60%.

    If you see any mistakes or rules in the wrong place please let me know. FGeel free to use it copy it etc.

    Thanks for the input


    Cheers

    R
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  17. #17
    Senior Member edew's Avatar
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    Not to sound cheap, but can you make the colors hashed instead of solid yellow/red/black? Toner ink ain't cheap.

    Also, interruption w/o reason (9th first group offense) is misspelled.

    Another is:

    "In Saber, touch scored with the guard; (*) any forward"

    any forward what? (I'm guessing it's crossing of feet or something to that regard).
    =)=///

  18. #18
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    in the first panel the box containing;

    In Saber, touch scored with the guard;(*) any forward

    looks like you cut of the second line.

    very handy, dull day at work?

  19. #19
    Senior Member R. Exnicios's Avatar
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    I'll make the corrections and post it.

    Quote Originally Posted by keith

    very handy, dull day at work?

    Telephone Conference.

    Cheers

  20. #20
    Kat
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    Nice job. One more small thing I noticed; it is "corps corps" as opposed to "corps corps" as you wrote it on the chart.

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