Foil wiring problems

[Zara_athlen]

Recently my main foil broke down, I have just re-wired it along with several other of my friends foils. Upon testing one today, after about thirty points of solid fencing, the weapon began showing problems.

Hard beats to the blade are sending a white light off, and I am guessing that the wire inside is being rubbed against the blade somewhere inside. My question to the experts is that is there a better way to insulate the wires inside the blade so that they last a bit longer?. Because hard beats just seem to quickly make foils fall start having problems.

In terms of armory skill, although new at it, I followed the guide on this website exactly. The foil worked perfectly for the first 30 points until a super hard beat basically made it start going haywire.

The glue used was a standard "super-glue" from the hardware store. Perhaps the glue is too brittle? Any ideas would be great.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I'd say its the glue. The glue that I use without fail is the PBT wire glue, bostik. Its rubbery, strong, and consistent.

[DrDoom]

I wire all my blades with pic-stic super glue and have never had any problems. I can't believe the lengths people on this board go to do a simple wiring job. I think it all just comes down to practice.

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by Zara_athlen

Hard beats to the blade are sending a white light off, and I am guessing that the wire inside is being rubbed against the blade somewhere inside. My question to the experts is that is there a better way to insulate the wires inside the blade so that they last a bit longer?. Because hard beats just seem to quickly make foils fall start having problems.

white lights on hard beats usually means that a screw is loose in the barrel..maybe one of the armourers in here can confirm. i'm a novice but for me, this is the cause 99.99% of the time.

as far as your insulation question, i doubt there is anything you could put around the wire from a rules perspective other than the glue.

[Purple Fencer]

More likely something's a touch loose. EVERY part of a foil is part of the overall circuit for electricity. Remember, foil's a cnormally closed circuit; power's ALWAYS running through the weapon until the tip is depressed. The box is looking for a BREAK in the circuit to fire one of the lights. Usually that means the tip's been pushed down and, because the scrfews hold the little collar in place which the tip moves, contact with the wire is broken...if the tip is NOT in contact with the other guy's lame at that time, power goes nowhere and the white light fires...if it's touching the other guy'lame, he becomes a part of your circjuit and the approproate color lights up.

HOWEVER...if the tip's loose, a hard beat might make it shake enough to break contact...thus the white light...same if the grip is loose.

If the wire's rubbing againstt he blade, it would expose the metal and the weapon would ground out...the circuit would never break, so you'd never get ANY light.

The glue is most likely not the issue...all it does is hold the wire in....it doesn;t affect the circuit.

Bottom line...hard beats setting off white light...check for loose spots (grip, tip, wire connection to the socket.)

[TheArmourer]

Zara

It could be that the wire has broken where the contact joins it.
Normally the preasure from the spring will maintain the connection, but a hard beat will shake everything enough to break the connection momentarily.
To check Carefully take the tip and spring out of the barrel. Turn the weapon point down and tap the firmly on a desk. If the contact dros out, you've found your problem.

Another possibility is that the barrel is loose or (as mentioned) the tip is too loose in the barrel or the spring is far to weak.

Importatnt bit when re-wiring: before you apply glue, push the contact right down into the barrel and maintain a slight tension on the wire as you stat to glue it in.
This helps prevent the wire breaking where the contact is joined to it.

Insulation: Use some nail varnish (a colour of your chouce - I prefer black) to coat the top inch of the wire and the back of the contact. This insures there is no bare metal as the wire passes through the barrel.
(This is unlikely to solve your current problem)

[Zara_athlen]

Thanks all for the support. I'm gonna start trying all the things you guys mentioned today before resorting to a rewire.

[glowstix]

nnoo!! don't rewire for a white light!! the fact that it is intermittent means the wiring is good and that something is loose as others said.

[Zara_athlen]

we think the problem was a loose barrel, havent fenced with it yet, so cant be positive Again, thanks all for the help

[Purple Fencer]

There ya go...sometimes the bestg solution is the most simple..

[neevel]

Originally Posted by Zara_athlen

we think the problem was a loose barrel, havent fenced with it yet, so cant be positive Again, thanks all for the help

There are a couple of things you can do prior to rewiring to cut down on problems with loose barrels. First off, clean the threading at the end of the blade- old glue, grit, and threadlocker will often be left there from when you remove the barrel. After that, make sure the barrel still threads on well. The threads on the barrel can become worn after a number of re-wirings.

Finally, once you've verified that the blade and barrel threading is fine, you can use some hand-tool removable threadlocker (like blue Loctite) to help keep the barrel in place. Just apply a drop or two to the blade threading right before you screw the barrel on.

-Dave

[TheArmourer]

Originally Posted by glowstix

nnoo!! don't rewire for a white light!! the fact that it is intermittent means the wiring is good and that something is loose as others said.

Sorry, but this isn't quite right.
The wire could have a break in it, but it might be small enough that the resulting two parts of wire are normally in contact, maintaining electrical continuity. When the blade is flexed or beaten, there can then be sufficient gap induced that an open circuit is detected, giving a white light.
This is most common where the contact is joined to the wire within the point. (Soldering the contact onto the wire can "heat treat" the wire, making it more brittle and suceptible to these sort of problems. Slapping the blade on the floor can easily cause this sort of fracture.)

Definitely agree with Neevel on the thread lock issue.
(Not entirely sure it's within the rules, but I can't find any mention of it and I challenge any referee to notice it.)

[Zara_athlen]

think im gonna save this entire thread, because it just has such a wealth of information

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Zara_athlen

think im gonna save this entire thread, because it just has such a wealth of information

Heh....one good thing about this board....you present an armory problem, you'll eventually get the right answer! Where else can you have such access to armorers from someone like me (whose expertise only encompasses the weapon and body cord at present) to Donald Clinton (who can fix darn near anything)...now if we had Dan Dechaine on this board....that man could be dead and STILL out-armore most people I know!