Sabre sockets

[TheArmourer]

How common two pin sockets are in sabre.
(As a foilist) I can only recall seeing bayonet sockets on sabres, but technically (and in terms of the rules) there's no reason why you can't use a two pin plug.

[whtouche]

2 pin socket in sabre common very.

I believe bayonet sockets are much more prevelant in england than the US(and the rest of the world?) where two-prong are more popular.

[neevel]

Originally Posted by TheArmourer

How common two pin sockets are in sabre.
(As a foilist) I can only recall seeing bayonet sockets on sabres, but technically (and in terms of the rules) there's no reason why you can't use a two pin plug.

2-prong is far more common around the world for both foil and sabre- you see LP bayonet in the UK because Leon Paul is based there. It's a good deal simpler to ground a 2-prong socket for sabre, since you only need to remove the plastic washer from the B terminal. Bayonet sockets (except for the specific sabre model made by LP) are more difficult to reliably ground.

Here in the US, I'd estimate the ratio of 2-prong to bayonet to be very roughly 6-1 for foil, and 10-1 for sabre (with some regional variation).

-Dave

[Peach]

I agree with Dave. I use two-prong for sabre, and so do the majority of the sabre fencers I know. Many of the people I know who use bayonet for sabre are foil fencers who use the same kit for their other weapon.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Peach

I agree with Dave. I use two-prong for sabre, and so do the majority of the sabre fencers I know. Many of the people I know who use bayonet for sabre are foil fencers who use the same kit for their other weapon.

Or they're like me....started with bayonet sockets in both....then switched the head to German 2-pin after a couple of bayo sockets got torn up.

[TheArmourer]

Thanks

[Andy-B]

The Joy of the bayonet over the two pin in both sabre and foil is that it is very difficult for the weapon to become disconnected by accident, I have seen quite a few of the two pins 'fall out' during a match, and if not spotted non of your points will register and the box may start to show white lights (but not always - depends of the box)

Also if you are going to fence both sabre and foil, you can share the kit between.

I'm for LP bayonet for both foil and sabre!!!

A.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by Andy-B

Also if you are going to fence both sabre and foil, you can share the kit between.

This statement, I don't understand. If you have 2-prong connectors for both Sabre and Foil, you can just as easily if not easier share everything. The body cord is the only common item you can share. You can modify any Foil connector to be a Sabre connector. With parts you can do the reverse, but both are easier to do with a 2-prong. What do you mean?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Andy-B

The Joy of the bayonet over the two pin in both sabre and foil is that it is very difficult for the weapon to become disconnected by accident, I have seen quite a few of the two pins 'fall out' during a match, and if not spotted non of your points will register and the box may start to show white lights (but not always - depends of the box)

Also if you are going to fence both sabre and foil, you can share the kit between.

I'm for LP bayonet for both foil and sabre!!!

A.

If a two prong bodywire has the little clip thingy that fastens it to the socket, it falls out less frequently than a bayonet bodywire. I believe that a two prong without a clip to fasten it to the socket is illegal according to the rules.

I prefer bayonet bodywires (for foil) since I find it easier to connect the wire to the socket contact when wiring up a foil. Also, the little clip thingies on the two prongs are prone to being broken or lost.

[oiuyt]

Or you can try the Negrini Italian bayonet design which holds considerably better than 2-prong or LP bayonet. Basically it's a BNC-style connector. Beautifully well built. Feels solid.

-B :)

[neevel]

Originally Posted by Andy-B

The Joy of the bayonet over the two pin in both sabre and foil is that it is very difficult for the weapon to become disconnected by accident, I have seen quite a few of the two pins 'fall out' during a match, and if not spotted non of your points will register and the box may start to show white lights (but not always - depends of the box)

Which is why the German-style 2 prong plugs (with the retainer clip built into the plug) are preferable to the Prieur-style 2 prongs, with above mentioned plastic clip that slips on to the socket (and also falls off and gets lost easily).

Keep in mind that LP bayonet sockets can develop retention problems, too. The nibs on the interior of the nylon socket body which keep the plug from rotating can get worn away with use. When that happens, the plug will turn and pop out at inopportune times during fencing.

The Carmimari/Negrini style bayonet plugs & sockets are the most elegant basic design to my mind, and almost never have issues with coming loose in fencing (due to the J-slot and retaining stud design). German-style 2-prong also rarely has retention problems, so long as the spring loaded clip on the plug is there.

-Dave

[dekko]

Two prong sockets and body cords are preferred for two reasons:

1. Ease of younger fencers to 'install' 2-prong body cords vs. bayonet.

2. There is more surface area of a 2-prong body cord to the socket than bayonet and as hard as some folks hit now white lights have been caused. However, I haven't seen that as much with the Leon Paul design. Don't know if it's a stronger spring or what but the white light is less common.

As for german vs french sockets, personally don't care as long as I have the german style plug on the body cord.

Admit, don't have any experience with the BNC plug other than some history. I knew a huy in Texas who tried that and was told it was illegal, guess because the armourers at the time hadn't seen it before. But this was early/mid 90's.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by dekko

Two prong sockets and body cords are preferred for two reasons:

1. Ease of younger fencers to 'install' 2-prong body cords vs. bayonet.

2. There is more surface area of a 2-prong body cord to the socket than bayonet and as hard as some folks hit now white lights have been caused. However, I haven't seen that as much with the Leon Paul design. Don't know if it's a stronger spring or what but the white light is less common.

As for german vs french sockets, personally don't care as long as I have the german style plug on the body cord.

Admit, don't have any experience with the BNC plug other than some history. I knew a huy in Texas who tried that and was told it was illegal, guess because the armourers at the time hadn't seen it before. But this was early/mid 90's.

Leon Paul's do have a stronger spring and a better fit, then the knock-off.

You comment about your friend is a sad thought, but too true many times. I had the same problem at a World Championship. They had never seen a Toykyo Sport body cord, but I got it passed with help from Marcello the chairman of the SEMI commission. The member of the SEMI Commission that was the 'Official' representative had limited experience.

I have had a fencer design and build their own connector. I may have never seen it before but it followed the rules.

[TheArmourer]

The rules for the socket say it can follow pretty much any design you want.
They are as follows. (These are the US Rules, but as far as I know, they're just a transleation of the FIE rules.)

m.29 .... At the end nearest the foil, inside the guard, any method of attachment is allowed but the method adopted must always conform to the specification laid down in Article m.5.

m.5 1. ...
The connections must be so arranged that it is impossible for the fencer to break or make contacts while fencing.
...
3. Any system of attachment inside the guard is allowed, provided that it conforms to the following requirements.
— It must be easy to detach or attach the bodywire.
— It must be possible to check it by a simple method such as using a penknife or a coin.
— It must be easy to apply the pointe d’arrêt of the opponent’s weapon to the ground circuit connected to the blade.
— It must have a security device which makes it impossible for the contact to be broken during the bout.
— It must ensure the complete connection of the electric wires; it must be impossible for even a momentary break of contact to
occur while the plugs are connected.
— It must not include any part which allows electrical contact to be made between the plug sockets.