Good News!

[Iwant2bafencer]

Guess what! My local collage wont accept me yet because I am to young. In my opinion it is the stupidest reason a collage can think of. Anyway thats beside the point.
My Parent are willing to drive me out to the next closest club! (which is about an hour away. An hour and a half with bad trafic.) Anyway after school starts this winter i'm gonna go down there, and see if they will give me a free trial. We'll see what happens then, and I'll let everyone know how it goes. Just thought you all might like to know.

[Haze]

Yeah that should be cool.

I'm joining a club that is about 30mins drive away from home, then formally joining the club at uni (instead of just watching then going to the pub with them). I am hoping to try and make it back to my home club every week, which is just over an hour away from uni. Or at least it would be if I had a car.

With the two combined, that should give me about 5 training sessions and a couple of individual lessons per week.

I'm not sure quite how it is going to work though - in the beginners sessions at my home club I will be learning foil, but I'm pretty sure the uni coach (a hungarian) will want me to learn epee first. This could be interesting.

[edew]

I'm guessing your local college didn't accept you not just because you're too young. I'm more inclined to guess that your "impressionistic-era" spelling style might have something to do with it.

Have fun anyways!

[Peach]

Don't make the mistake of thinking spelling, (especially in a recreational setting), has much to do with intellect, educational level, or ability to achieve.

I agree that there is such a thing as being too young for college. I started just after my 17th birthday and it was a reeeaaally bad idea. Some who are that young are all right, and even some who are younger, but generally speaking I don't see the point of being in a hurry to shove kids through school.

[damianip]

Originally posted by Peach:
<STRONG>Don't make the mistake of thinking spelling, (especially in a recreational setting), has much to do with intellect, educational level, or ability to achieve.
</STRONG>

This quite an unexpected opinion coming from you (Delia?)

Your posts (here and RSF NG) have always been clear and thoughtful. You're a teacher and a writer, yes?

Spelling errors drive me nuts for this reason:

If one doesn't care enough to express one's opinions clearly, then why should anyone else care to listen? I find this especially true in the very "constrained" medium of message boards.

Just my own little pet peeve.

Paolo

PS Hope I didn't misspell anything...

[Peach]

It's because I'm a teacher and a writer that I don't think spelling has much to do with intelligence or ability. Spelling errors DO make me nuts, because I'm one of those people who naturally knows how to spell and the errors jump out at me. I can spell any word I've seen once, because I have a strong visual memory and I see words as shapes, not collections of letters. Like many people who spell well in English, however, I don't read phonetically. As a teacher I know the ability to spell is a byproduct of the way people's brains process information, and this ability falls across a continuum. I, for instance, can spell almost anything correctly. Some people can spell pretty well, with the help of a few strategies and some memorization. Others (including the grammar-obsessed whip-cracking nit-picking English teacher in my grade level at school who is the bane of generations of schoolboys and their single most vivid memory) will NEVER be able to be sure they have spelt things correctly and must depend on rote memory, vast collections of rules, various dictionaries, computer spell-check, and a succession of friendly proofreaders. People like that (as I remark to my students while handing back papers in which the spelling errors have been underlined) have to know more about spelling strategies than I ever will, and they have my admiration and sympathy.

As for writers being better at spelling, my editor was blown away when the copy-editors got through with the manuscript for my second novel. She requested a copy on disk instead of having it retyped from scratch. Apparently most writers spell so abysmally and make so many errors it's easier just to do it over completely.

There are a great number of fascinating books which touch on the subject of spelling; the most recent I've read is WORDS AND RULES by Steven Pinker (a neat discussion of irregular verbs, which are the most commonly used verbs in English). Bill Bryson's MOTHER TONGUE is another, and I'll end this obsessive digression with a quotation from that:

"Spellings in English are so treacherous, and opportunities for flummoxing so abundant, that the authorities themselves sometimes stumble."

(And if there is any justice, I probably misspelled something in this message or omitted a word. A poster on my classroom wall reads: Proofread carefully so you don't any words out.)

[ 08-04-2001: Message edited by: Peach ]

[neevel]

There's also such a thing as being a good speller but a bad (or rushed) typist. I've made posts in the past that were full of typos because I was quickly hammering it out over lunch, with a meeting or other appointment coming up in a few minutes, and thus was trying to type faster than I'm really able to, and didn't have time to proofread and correct.

One of the most amusing source of errors is an inattentive reliance on spell checkers. A college friend of mine named Eric H. Anderson (used to fence and post on rec.sport.fencing) once absentmindedly let a spell checker correct his name on a letter to 'Erect H. Undersign' .

-Dave

[ 08-04-2001: Message edited by: neevel ]

[Peach]

Speaking of rushed typing, in my previous message I originally spelled "correctly" incorrectly &lt;grin&gt;.

[Moonitic]

I have a confession. I cringe when I see a word spelled incorrectly (yes, even on this board...sorry). BUT I don't like to point it out. In our little Fantasy Land thing, I'm so happy that people are taking an interest in writing (my dearest love) that I do not wish to discourage anyone by pointing out errors. I also try not to post as much when it comes to storytelling.

Ok, so one reason is that I could easily get paid for stuff like this, but I do it here for free.

And Dave is quite right. A wonderful speller can be a horrific typist. It takes practice to think & type without looking at the keys at the same time.

[tinasam]

I believe it just depends on enviroment and lifestyle. Most younger folks either don't have an intense grasp of grammar and syntax, or just don't care at times. I know that with myself, as it is with Moonitic I am sure, that being a writer you are so used to typing and keystroking that it is second nature...and with the proofreading and the editing that is in our line of work, it naturally makes it to where the errors in others (as in ourselves) writings just LEAP right out as glaring, whether it be or not.

Paolo -- I kept nodding at your post

[sallearmourer]

There is some of us that cannot spell due to
Hearing impairments and learning disabilities. Delia I am one such person. I can fixed about anything dealing with fenceing but can't spell worth a hoot. Janet is help me spell right now.


Thank You
Tim Loomis

[Foil Girl]

Yeah, I have trouble spelling online sometimes, because typing isn't really my forte. I can do it fast, but typos are quite common with me.

[Peach]

Tim - yeah, when I wrote that I was thinking of you as another example of a bright person who does not spell well. It surprises me how people who CAN spell think others misspell things out of deliberate cussedness or laziness, and how willing these people are to criticize misspelling publicly when they would never dream of being unkind about other flaws.

[Catal]

Wannabe,

In response to your being turned down, do you know if the college you applied to has a specific policy on people under eighteen? I know at my college, the school won't accept non-adults for contact sports, or sports that are seemingly dangerous, such as fencing. It's a liability issue. It's a lot easier to sue a university for negligence if it is a child (no offense) that is involved in an injury that occured on school grounds, especially if the trial goes to a jury. A private college like my own simply can't afford to be fighting injury lawsuits, so anyone under eighteen that isn't enrolled with the university and covered by its health plan (or other) is only allowed to participate in swimming and cheerleading camp, under much supervision.

[Zelda]

I am not an innate speller as such. Sometimes I write/type a word 3 or four times as it "looks" wrong, even though I know it is right. As for community colleges turning people down I reserve my judgement as we dont have them her in Australia.

[damianip]

Tim,

It's good to see you on this message board. Welcome...

I agree that there are exceptions, and I know your posts from RSF (always good info, much appreciated). However, in many cases, it seems that folks just don't care.

I'm probably old and stuffy, but as I said, when we're in a sterile environment such as this (no visual clues to enhance communication), accurate spelling and clarity in grammar go a long way to making sure the point gets across.

BTW, I'm willing to bet that I am the worst typist on this message board, which is why my replies are slow in coming.

Also, Moon, I cringe the most when I see my own spelling errors after I post. (Thank God for the "Edit Post" option.)

All this spelling and grammar anxiety is, I'm sure in my case, the product of an RC education.

Iwant2bafencer,

It's great that your parents are willing to cart you around to let you try the other club. The real problem is going to come after you try fencing, fall in love with it and have to fence 3-5 days a week. Your poor parents: you had better become the perfect, grateful progeny...

Paolo

PS Maybe this "Strunk and White" discussion should move to the water cooler.

[DamedEscrime]

Guys...and gals,
Can we relax here a little bit? I'm a teacher too, but I'm off for the summer. In addition, I consider this a place to just be myself (sort of). When I write here I consider everything a rough draft. Of course I care about spelling, but it's the content that most impresses me in the forum.
We sure don't want to have people read this argument, become spelling phobics and not post anything, now do we?

[sallearmourer]

I just notice that you are from SLC UT there are several clubs in the area One by Hill AFB one downtown SLC one in OREM.

Watchsak Fencing Club
Salt Lake Fence
UT Valley Sport in Orem

[vegan]

Tim, Delia, and others,
First, Welcome to the Board Tim- good to have you.
2nd, I'd be willing to be that I have one of the hardest times spelling of any member of the board (Learning disability). To that effect I should run a spell checker more often, however I don't. I am not a visual learner but a physical and audio learner. This means I can type fairly well, just not spell (Although I try to be careful so that I do not upset people like paolo. Its not like I don't understand the cringing- I listen to out of tune music all day . . . . G@# D2@###$!!!).
I think however that in this casual a seting we should be forgiving of spelling, or gramatical errors. This allows all of us to just be ourselves, and try to express whatever valuable thoughts we have.
Cheers.
Ben
Ps. I hope I did not make to many spelling or gramatical errors!!!
Pps. Iwant2bafencer, Do you have to be a student to join the fencing club (ask the coach or figurhead to just get some lessons) not that this matters, but if its only classes you are tring to get- try to audit them as a continuing education student, they should accept you on this basis.

[Bugaboo]

I'm willing to ignore a few misspellings, odd punctuations, and badly constructed sentences. As long as it looks as though the writer is TRYING to be clear, I can forgive a lot from the general public. I know I'm not perfect, either.

But when those mistakes accumulate beyond a certain point in a message, I simply walk away. I assume that if a writer doesn't care about the presentation of his opinions and ideas, they're not important enough for me to decode either. "Intelligence" be damned -- it's all about consideration for your audience.

I've been a newspaper journalist for 15 years. You can bet your sweet bippy that when I make a mistake, at least a dozen readers are going to rip apart my character and question the value of my story.