In Southwest Florida we're experiencing a surge of interest in fencing, in part generated by pre-Olympic coverage in the press and on television. Our region is also experiencing a booming economy and unprecidented population growth which in turn is generating the largest public school expansion in the state of Florida.
We will soon approach our three neighboring County's School Systems about incorporating fencing into the schools' recreation and athletic programs.
Have any of you had success bringing fencing into a public school system? And if so, how did you accomplish it?
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Mike Morgan
Last edited by mike morgan; 08-02-2004 at 11:35 AM..
I have no experience in this sort of thing, but given the unreasonably paranoid mindset of most School Boards about "weapons" in school I'm afraid you will have a very difficult time with this project.
I agree that in today's sensative environment the thought of "weapons" in a school could cause unease. When we talk with school officials we use the terms 'sporting equipment', and try to make the point that fencing foils, epees and sabres are 'sporting equipment' just like baseball bats, hockey sticks, and field hockey sticks.
I disagree. Does baseball get banned because of baseball bats? Bats are probably used more often as weapons than a fencing foil, epee, or saber.
I would caution not use the term "weapon" though. I would use "sporting equipment" or foil. If someone does pose the question about weapons, try to explain that it is a traditional term and less dangerous than a baseball bat.
By the way, I also have no experience introducing fencing to public school systems.
I teach fencing (in a club) at a private school. Aside from the fact that our athletic director hates the idea of introducing yet another sport and has said we will have a fencing team over his dead body (he's a former pro lacrosse player), I have had no problems with anyone about safety. I even had one parent insist on enrolling her kid who had had a double kidney transplant and was vulnerable to hits in the torso. Luckily for me, he didn't like it much and quit.
__________________ I'm not anonymous. We just haven't been properly introduced.
Recently we've had very good success with several of our fencers from public high schools getting into top-notch academic and fencing colleges. This has brought good publicity to the County and to the individual high schools. Many of the high school guidance counsellors are actively supporting our efforts which they see as helping create a 'well-rounded' student.
And the two local papers have written long profiles on the many benefits of fencing. We now are trying to capitalize on this support. Though we are in a state where football is king, surprisingly many diverse sports are encouraged--such as high school rowing.
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Mike Morgan
Last edited by mike morgan; 08-02-2004 at 12:55 PM..
NJ has had fencing as a official high school sport for close to 50 years. Not sure how they got it in the first place but I am glad they did. All the NJ High schools with fencing teams are located in central to north parts of the state. It might be a good idea to use NJ as your model but my guess is that you are going to find what Peach encountered. This is also the case regarding adding college programs.
New Jersey sounds like an excellent model. I remember that many years ago fencing was also very popular in some Long Island high schools. Indeed my wife fenced on her Long Island high school team for four years. Is fencing still practiced in Long Island high schools?
Hey Mike,
I was born near Miami (Homestead) which is in the Southern Florida area (duh), and still have relatives in the Miami-Dade school system. The only thing is, the system (and the behavior of the students within) is so bad that they are all homeschooled. I dunno if the school system where you live is as bad as Miami-Dade's, but do you think that there will be enough interest for as refined a sport as fencing in a school system who's pupils are having trouble with not killing each other in school? But I dunno if Ft. Myers's is that bad (and I mean my experience with that area's schools is limited to my cousins' horror stories so I'm admitadly biased.)
Wow that was long-winded.
-Matt
__________________
Stone walls do not a prison make,
nor iron bars a cage
You're lucky if your school is big enough to have a fencing team. I live in a district that that is tiny (So small that next year we are probably cutting soccer for budget reasons, making our only school funded sports football and basketball, and partially girls volleyball). I would personally KILL for a fencing team at our school, and I know a lot of people that would try it in a school setting that would not in a club setting. I wish you luck in your efforts, but it is probably worth noting that unless you have a very progressive audience, fencing will be viewed as a fringe sport that should be private.
I have to believe that NJ is unique regarding high school fencing. There are other states that have high school fencing teams but not sure those states officially recognize the sport -> have district and state championships.
This is also the case at the college level. There was a time when both the ACC and Big Ten recognized mens fencing as conference sports (dropped back in the early 1980s) but this is no longer the case. Not sure if any real conference (Big East?) other then the Ivy league officially recognizes fencing. Luckly it is still a NCAA sport but for how long who really knows.
I've successfully introduced fencing, along with my coach into several different schools, over the past couple decades. Not, mind you, as a part of the regular cirriculum, but as intra-mural classes, clubs, and as a section of a particular gym class.
In some cases, we gathered signatures of students interested in having an after school class.
In other cases, we got a friendly member of the faculty to sponsor the class.
We regularly gave fencing demonstrations to gym classes, during school festivals, city festivals, and at local shopping centers, during competitions.
We send formal proposals to the athletic directors, prinicpals, gym teachers, or whom ever we could identify as a decision maker, and kept it up until we got a hearing.
My wife teaches high school at a local private school. She persuaded the school to let her teach a section of fencing as an elective. It has a chance of becoming a regular part of their physical education program.
So, I recommend:
Give fencing demonstrations wherever and whenever possible
Contact local school authorities regularly, with concrete proposals.
Get about a dozen (or more) sets of practice gear together for use in such a demo/class
Marry a school teacher....
Keep at it. It always takes perseverence.
Mike, NJ had a few teams 40 years ago but now are adding several teams each year, I believe we will have over 40 teams this year. The biggest problem with NJ having fencing is they offer it during the winter and space is very limited because of basketball and wrestling. As for safety, our athletic trainer spends very little if no time with our 40 fencers. We have the best safety record of all the sports in the school. The worst injury we have had is a turned ankle.
I started our team a few years ago with a 2 day a week club. A very established team offered to fence us at the end of the season. After that the fencers were hooked and we pushed for a team. In NJ you must have all 3 weapons. In NY you only need one weapon.
We have tried to get fencing established at two private schools. We have talked to a couple of public schools.
Neither have taken root, although one may do so this year after three years. Here are the primary problems:
1. Getting interest in the sport is easy. Swords and teenagers. If you can't get kids interested in fencing, you are doing something horribly wrong. Demonstrations are an absolute necessity, and assembly is best, have flyers, maybe get some kids up on "stage" to fence with you. You need to have some specific information to give them or you will lose the momentum that the demo creates.
2. Administration should be handled in a similar way. Let them see a demonstrations, have information printed, and anticipate their questions. You will have to address the following big questions:
- will it be a P.E. class for credit or an extracurricular club activity (there are a lot of related details) - attendance requirements - waivers/insurance
- are the kids affluent enough to by the gear (about $125 to start), can the school pay for it initially, or are you willing to lug around the equipment (not)
- fees per semester - will you require some sessions at the club on weekends, or participation in a tournament at the end of the semester - something that demonstrates a "product" at the end of the term.
- coaching and possible faculty involvement - training a coach
- find space for a class and storage space for equipment
3. The biggest roadblock is coaching (and definitely our biggest problem). We have a successful club, with two coaches, and daily classes starting at about 3:30pm, plus Saturdays. If you start a fencing program after school like a club (most likely), how will you provide coaching? The ideal solution is to find an individual within the club who can coach, but they have to be an adult, and most adults work... problem. Faculty at the school generally don't have time to do something else, and most of the P.E. teachers are already involved with activities after school. You might luck into a history teacher with an interest in fencing, or maybe even a parent. Once you find one, they will have to be trained to coach a beginning class... actually, they will need to coach through the intermediate level or the kids will get bored quickly. It might make sense to invite them to fence with you weekend club classes to supplement what they learn at school.
I would be interested to know how New Jersey handles the coaching issue.
I am assuming that you are not going to coach for free... you shouldn't. We do, however, offer to train a coach for free. If it is a promising program. I believe we would be even more flexible.
I've successfully introduced fencing, along with my coach into several different schools, over the past couple decades. Not, mind you, as a part of the regular cirriculum, but as intra-mural classes, clubs, and as a section of a particular gym class.
In some cases, we gathered signatures of students interested in having an after school class.
In other cases, we got a friendly member of the faculty to sponsor the class.
We regularly gave fencing demonstrations to gym classes, during school festivals, city festivals, and at local shopping centers, during competitions.
We send formal proposals to the athletic directors, prinicpals, gym teachers, or whom ever we could identify as a decision maker, and kept it up until we got a hearing.
My wife teaches high school at a local private school. She persuaded the school to let her teach a section of fencing as an elective. It has a chance of becoming a regular part of their physical education program.
So, I recommend:
Give fencing demonstrations wherever and whenever possible
Contact local school authorities regularly, with concrete proposals.
Get about a dozen (or more) sets of practice gear together for use in such a demo/class
Marry a school teacher....
Keep at it. It always takes perseverence.
Thank you, Bill. Excellent advice. We've begun giving fencing demonstrations at local and regional schools, and have also begun developing 'friends of fencing' at two of our largest high schools. And I did marry a school teacher, who, when we got married, was a very good (B rated) foilist. We've continued verbally fencing for 36 years. Ann always wins!
Hey Mike,
I was born near Miami (Homestead) which is in the Southern Florida area (duh), and still have relatives in the Miami-Dade school system. The only thing is, the system (and the behavior of the students within) is so bad that they are all homeschooled. I dunno if the school system where you live is as bad as Miami-Dade's, but do you think that there will be enough interest for as refined a sport as fencing in a school system who's pupils are having trouble with not killing each other in school? But I dunno if Ft. Myers's is that bad (and I mean my experience with that area's schools is limited to my cousins' horror stories so I'm admitadly biased.)
Wow that was long-winded.
-Matt
Matt:
My wife was a Miami-Dade school teacher and by and large the school environments ARE MOST difficult.
Things in Ft. Myers are completely different. There is no comparison, and the community actually invests time, energy and financial resources in our school system. We are planning to build 13 new schools, including two new high schools over the next five years.
Mike, NJ had a few teams 40 years ago but now are adding several teams each year, I believe we will have over 40 teams this year. The biggest problem with NJ having fencing is they offer it during the winter and space is very limited because of basketball and wrestling. As for safety, our athletic trainer spends very little if no time with our 40 fencers. We have the best safety record of all the sports in the school. The worst injury we have had is a turned ankle.
I started our team a few years ago with a 2 day a week club. A very established team offered to fence us at the end of the season. After that the fencers were hooked and we pushed for a team. In NJ you must have all 3 weapons. In NY you only need one weapon.
You've made superb progress!! Most encouraging! Fortunately, we don't lack for indoor space because of our good winter weather.
__________________
Mike Morgan
Last edited by mike morgan; 08-02-2004 at 07:12 PM..
We have tried to get fencing established at two private schools. We have talked to a couple of public schools.
Neither have taken root, although one may do so this year after three years. Here are the primary problems:
1. Getting interest in the sport is easy. Swords and teenagers. If you can't get kids interested in fencing, you are doing something horribly wrong. Demonstrations are an absolute necessity, and assembly is best, have flyers, maybe get some kids up on "stage" to fence with you. You need to have some specific information to give them or you will lose the momentum that the demo creates.
2. Administration should be handled in a similar way. Let them see a demonstrations, have information printed, and anticipate their questions. You will have to address the following big questions:
- will it be a P.E. class for credit or an extracurricular club activity (there are a lot of related details) - attendance requirements - waivers/insurance
- are the kids affluent enough to by the gear (about $125 to start), can the school pay for it initially, or are you willing to lug around the equipment (not)
- fees per semester - will you require some sessions at the club on weekends, or participation in a tournament at the end of the semester - something that demonstrates a "product" at the end of the term.
- coaching and possible faculty involvement - training a coach
- find space for a class and storage space for equipment
3. The biggest roadblock is coaching (and definitely our biggest problem). We have a successful club, with two coaches, and daily classes starting at about 3:30pm, plus Saturdays. If you start a fencing program after school like a club (most likely), how will you provide coaching? The ideal solution is to find an individual within the club who can coach, but they have to be an adult, and most adults work... problem. Faculty at the school generally don't have time to do something else, and most of the P.E. teachers are already involved with activities after school. You might luck into a history teacher with an interest in fencing, or maybe even a parent. Once you find one, they will have to be trained to coach a beginning class... actually, they will need to coach through the intermediate level or the kids will get bored quickly. It might make sense to invite them to fence with you weekend club classes to supplement what they learn at school.
I would be interested to know how New Jersey handles the coaching issue.
I am assuming that you are not going to coach for free... you shouldn't. We do, however, offer to train a coach for free. If it is a promising program. I believe we would be even more flexible.
Yes, coaching could indeed be a problem. We're fortunate that we have many experienced fencers and sound coaches who have moved--and are continually moving--to our area. And I know of several outstanding coaches who wish to relocate here permanently.
Unlike the Northeast where there are many fine fencing clubs we have only one fencing club with a newly opened branch in Naples. But we have a fast growing regional population of nearly a million people--all within an hour's drive of our two fencing centers.
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