Re: [CFML] Insurance

[Sean Hayes]

on 7/26/04 2:05 PM, j_sullins@comcast.net at j_sullins@comcast.net wrote:

> I have also worried about this. What ever happened to the AHFA club insu=
rance
> policy they were working on? What do groups like SCA

SCA is a huge organization with significant buying power and an insurance
policy to match. I have been given to understand, by friends of mine in th=
e
SCA, that the blanket insurance policy covering such a large number of
fighters does, to a certain extent, dictates the play: in other words, the
rules have so strong a bent towards safety that many historically correct
techniques are outlawed even though they may not really be "unsafe". I'm
sure list members in the SCA could supply more details or perhaps a more
accurate picture.


> and other historical reenactors do?

Good question. I hope someone has an answer.


Sean Hayes
Maestro d=B9armi
Northwest Academy of Arms
http://www.northwestacademyofarms.com/

"Popular is a tricky word. People in large numbers don't always have the
best taste." - Richard Thompson





------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->=20
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSI...LSAA/VRUolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->=20

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The CFML is sponsored in part by Purpleheart Armoury, now carrying rapier b=
lunts and leather gorgets. http://www.woodenswords.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=20
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/classicalfencing/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
classicalfencing-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
=20

[Zebee Johnstone]

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 22:07:40 -0700, Sean Hayes <hayes@efn.org> wrote:

>
>
> SCA is a huge organization with significant buying power and an insurance
> policy to match. I have been given to understand, by friends of mine in the
> SCA, that the blanket insurance policy covering such a large number of
> fighters does, to a certain extent, dictates the play: in other words, the
> rules have so strong a bent towards safety that many historically correct
> techniques are outlawed even though they may not really be "unsafe". I'm
> sure list members in the SCA could supply more details or perhaps a more
> accurate picture.

Can't talk about the US SCA, but the SCA here in Oz has its own
policy. And we aren't big. We get insurance at reasonable rates
because we are a "good risk".

My understanding is that as it doesn't cover *participants* but only
3rd parties, fighting isn't that big a deal. As long as the
paperwork's done so it's clear who is participating and who is not,
and that the participants can't say "didn't know it was dangerous",
and as long as the fighters have someone watching out for problems,
then that's as much as fighting matters. Pretty much "sign the
indemnity, have a marshal, inspect the gear to be sure it's not going
to fly apart". Because we don't let non-participants play or do more
than watch from a distance, injury to people - which is the expensive
end - is very unlikely.

The big ticket items for the SCA are not fighting, that does very
little 3rd party damage. It's cooks and candles burning down halls!
Or people hanging banners damaging walls, things like that.

Places that want insurance here want 3rd party liability. They want
to be covered if we do damage to their fixtures and fittings. It's
very hard for a fighter who is fighting in a marked area with 2
marshals looking out for trouble to damage a non-participant who
happens to be walking past, and fairly hard for them to damage
fixtures. Yes, most places want huge policies, but that's cos their
lawyers say so, in case something really weird happens and they need
the cover - lawyeral arse-covering, not something likely.

However, it's all 3rd party, so fighting's no worse than dancing in
that regard. In fact it is probably better, as it has roped off areas
and people watching out - a bunch of dancers on the local oval is
probably more likely to swing someone out into bystanders and send a
non-participant flying. And you don't need training, or inspection,
or safety gear, to dance!

The SCA's attitude to safety isn't insurance based, although many will
tell you so. It's very very cultural, and that culture isn't really a
topic for this forum. Anyone who wants to delve more into my
understanding after 20 years in (you fool you!) email me!

Zebee


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSI...LSAA/VRUolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The CFML is sponsored in part by Purpleheart Armoury, now carrying rapier blunts and leather gorgets. http://www.woodenswords.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/classicalfencing/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
classicalfencing-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Kevin Murakoshi]

Sean Hayes wrote:
> on 7/26/04 2:05 PM, j_sullins@comcast.net at j_sullins@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > I have also worried about this. What ever happened to the AHFA club
> insurance
> > policy they were working on? What do groups like SCA
>
> SCA is a huge organization with significant buying power and an insurance
> policy to match. I have been given to understand, by friends of mine in the
> SCA, that the blanket insurance policy covering such a large number of
> fighters does, to a certain extent, dictates the play: in other words, the
> rules have so strong a bent towards safety that many historically correct
> techniques are outlawed even though they may not really be "unsafe". I'm
> sure list members in the SCA could supply more details or perhaps a more
> accurate picture.

This is pretty accurate. The SCA rapier rules are very restrictive (in
regards to period play). No percussive cutting (though tip cuts are
sometimes allowed), no grappling or other intentional touching of your
opponent(Grabs that would usually go to the forearm are done at the
guard or on the blade), Push and Draw cuts are considered valid attacks,
cloaks may not be thrown to cover the opponent's vision, and blade
grabbing is no allowed. In addition, if a "non vital" limb is hit it
results in the loss of that limb, (right arm=switch to left, leg=sit on
the ground).

That said, the SCA is a lot of fun to play in, though i am very happy to
train outside it.

--kevin



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DRE...LSAA/VRUolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The CFML is sponsored in part by Purpleheart Armoury, now carrying rapier blunts and leather gorgets. http://www.woodenswords.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/classicalfencing/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
classicalfencing-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Justin Greywolf]

I would also like to point out that the SCA insurance policy is not a good
example. A friend of mine used to work for the indurance company that the
SCA policy is with, and looked up the policy.; She mentioned that the
policy does not really neccessarily cover the fighting - and that whoever
wrote the policy originally, had no idea what the fighting in the SCA was
like. Course, this was a few years ago, and may have been changed by now

Justin


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Hayes" <hayes@efn.org>
To: <classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [CFML] Insurance


on 7/26/04 2:05 PM, j_sullins@comcast.net at j_sullins@comcast.net wrote:

> I have also worried about this. What ever happened to the AHFA club
insurance
> policy they were working on? What do groups like SCA

SCA is a huge organization with significant buying power and an insurance
policy to match. I have been given to understand, by friends of mine in the
SCA, that the blanket insurance policy covering such a large number of
fighters does, to a certain extent, dictates the play: in other words, the
rules have so strong a bent towards safety that many historically correct
techniques are outlawed even though they may not really be "unsafe". I'm
sure list members in the SCA could supply more details or perhaps a more
accurate picture.


> and other historical reenactors do?

Good question. I hope someone has an answer.


Sean Hayes
Maestro d¹armi
Northwest Academy of Arms
http://www.northwestacademyofarms.com/

"Popular is a tricky word. People in large numbers don't always have the
best taste." - Richard Thompson






----------------------------------------------------------------------
The CFML is sponsored in part by Purpleheart Armoury, now carrying rapier
blunts and leather gorgets. http://www.woodenswords.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DRE...LSAA/VRUolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The CFML is sponsored in part by Purpleheart Armoury, now carrying rapier blunts and leather gorgets. http://www.woodenswords.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/classicalfencing/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
classicalfencing-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/