Qualifying stories, let's hear 'em

[edew]

[...]

Is there any reason refs couldn't have, say, a tall stool upon which to sit? Sort of like in tennis? I mean, very few of them actually follow the fencers up and down the strip anyway, so can't they see just as well sitting as standing? Sure seems that it'd alleviate the physical punishment a bit...

That might work in saber, as the referees seldom move in saber. However, referees do move a lot in foil and epee (and should, too).

[FoilyGeezer]

That might work in saber, as the referees seldom move in saber. However, referees do move a lot in foil and epee (and should, too).

Eric, this is the part where Inq says (aghast) "What? You mean there are other weapons?!?!"

[oiuyt]

They SHOULD move a lot in sabre too. Granted we have lots of "Fence. Halt. Together. On Guard." type touches that don't require it, I've never understood how other refs can follow action that moves beyond the guard lines without moving themselves. But hey, I'll move as a ref because that's what I need to do to make the correct calls. If some other ref can make the calls correctly without moving, more power to him/her. If a third ref can do it with his/her eyes closed... well, I might lack confidence, especially at the beginning, but if the calls are consistently correct.... I know I can't make good calls without following the action, so that's what I'll continue to do, whether a stool was offered or not. Well, at least until my training in the force becomes complete. :)

-B :)

[Inquartata]

Watching the WC and Olympic tapes Eric made a few years back, the refs never seemed to stir. And some of the best ones barely use the hand signals, either: some vague lazy flapping of wrists and a perfunctory wave in the direction of the fencer who got the touch.

Is a tired, footsore referee better to have than one who stays at the center line? I don't know...

[oiuyt]

Wasn't saying that a ref couldn't do exceptionally well without moving. I just don't understand how they can. I have plenty of evidence that there ARE people with this skill. I also know that I am not one of them (at least at this point in time). As I do well enough with moving, and am progressing satisfactorily, this is not a skill that I'm interested in trying to acquire currently. As mentioned, if a ref can make the correct calls with his/her eyes closed, fine. I know I can't, so I won't try.

In a side note, since you bring it up, I have also discovered that my reffing is improved when I make correct hand signals. It is also improved when I am not holding a clipboard (or other large object) in one hand (these may be related improvements as the clipboard interferes with the hand signals). Why does my ability to percieve close timing improve when my hands are unencumbered? Damn if I know. I have enough empirical evidence of the fact that I stopped using clipboards even before the FOCs started pushing referees in general to do so. A small scrap of paper, a stop watch, a pencil don't seem to interfere with my ability to referee. The remotes (which we're all going to have fun with next year at national events) I'm not sure about yet. I THINK that they're small enough that I haven't had problems, but there are other issues with trying to make sure that the clock got restarted while paying attention to the first actions of the fencers that definitely can have a negative impact. The remotes are not particularly good at wide angles, such as one finds if there's a halt with the fencers near one end of the strip (yet one more benefit of sabre, no one will complain that the referee isn't using the clock function). I am sure there are other people for whom hand signals don't matter, and yet others where worrying about doing the hand signals detracts from their ability to referee well. I do what works best for me. Conveniently this also happens to correlate well with what the FOC wants us to be doing. :)

-B :)

[Wizardly]

Qualifying stories...let's see

Divisionals was a D and under. Except for the C that showed up and was allowed to fence, and did, and won.
Referee says to you before the bout, "by the way, you've both alread qualified."
"Really?"
"Yeah."
Loses 13-15.
"Oops, my bad, I forgot about the other HALF of the tournament. You missed it by one round." (I totally outfenced the guy at nationals).
Qualified for Div 3 MF only.

Sectionals.
Epee fencer directing pool. ROW? What ROW? Pray for one-light (remember, in epee, it doesn't matter who attacked first, it only matters who hit first). Only 10% of the woes really since the trip down was horrible and havoc wreaking.
Low seeding, but not insurmountable. Handily defeats first round opponent. (What DOES it mean when the referee tells your now-defeated opponent what he did wrong while fencing you and how he should have been able to beat you?) Next up, the WORST influence on the whole section is my director...and oh yeah, he's had it out for me since high school (no lie). 19 touches, all counter-attack calls. Final score: 15-4 (4 times he missed). I was going to lose anyway, but it's the dignity of the thing. "Oh yeah, we were wrong in what you were told before: you can't qualify for Div 2 at sectionals unless you qualify for Div 1a." Drive home, unqualified, resigned to Div 3 only...or am I?

Email 1 week after entry deadline: "you're additionally qualified (because we can't do math)! Come fence all three!"

1 week before nationals, a letter arrives. "Bring this letter with you to nationals, these are the events you're entered in. Oh, and by the way, this entry is pending because we forgot what club you belong to. Please contact the USFA to straighten this out (even though nobody's here because we're all in Charlotte and wont be checking our voice mails until we get back)."

That's the short of my nationals qualifying story.

NEXT YEAR! NEXT YEAR WILL BE DIFFERENT!

[GingerBreadMan]

Watching the WC and Olympic tapes Eric made a few years back, the refs never seemed to stir. And some of the best ones barely use the hand signals, either: some vague lazy flapping of wrists and a perfunctory wave in the direction of the fencer who got the touch.

Is a tired, footsore referee better to have than one who stays at the center line? I don't know...

...Don't quote me on this (because I maybe wrong) but I thought that at the Olympics and WC finals the refs had a lot more space between them and the fencers in which to stand.....At most fencing events the refs stands back-to-back (almost touching eachother) with the ref from the next strip over. I don't see this limited space when I watch tapes of the Olympics and WC finals...The farther away from the strip a ref is ..the greater the distance he can cover with his/her vision...while things get a little smaller..your ability to take in all of the fencers actions and body movements becomes greater. I believe at small venues and cramped turnies a ref should be moving (although I think it distracts from their focus) so that they can still keep a visual eye on the actions. But at larger open (more roomy) turnies the ref should back up and not move (up and down the strip that is) so much.
........I believe hand signals are a must. I dislike it greatly when high ranking refs don't see the need to use them or use them in passing. They are there for a reason...It is for the coaches, fans and for the fencers who may have not be able to hear or know the call....I chalk it up to them being lazy and being full of themselves...IMO

[Inquartata]

That's a good point, about vantage distance. Albeit at tournaments generally this seems to depend solely on whether the next strip over is in use---lots of refs stand on the next strip over to direct when they can. I do see what you mean, though.

I also agree about the hand signals, they make things much easier to keep track of. Though often the ref is speed-signalling and is done before I have time to turn around and look at him...

[oiuyt]

Speed-signalling (or rather slowing down) is one of those refinements that some of the FOCs work on promoting to referees once they get the other parts (correct calls, signals in the first place, correct signals, demeanor, etc.) fairly well straightened out. Bill Oliver, especially, is big on relatively slow pacing of the signals. It also means that it's REALLY easy to see anything he calls. Every signal is crisp, clear, and well formed. I would love to eventually be as clear as he is. First step for me is pushing the locations where I signal further out from my body. Currently I tend to get into modes where I'm signalling with my hands within a framework that extends, oh, maybe 8-10" beyond my shoulders. It'd be better if that area extended more like 18" beyond my body.

-B :)

[oiuyt]

Qualifying stories...let's see

Divisionals was a D and under. Except for the C that showed up and was allowed to fence, and did, and won.

Uhm, if it was the D2 qualifier he SHOULD be allowed to fence. D2 quals shouldn't be limited to D and under.

-B :)